Bricks in Motion
We are a friendly filmmaking community devoted to the art of stop-motion animation using LEGO® and similar construction toys. Here, you can share your work, join our community of other brickfilmers, and participate in periodic animation contests!
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Are you guys really discussing politics on a website dedicated to the animation of plastic toys? Really? 
Are you guys really discussing politics on a website dedicated to the animation of plastic toys? Really?
I know right, this getting out of hand.
I disagree with the views HoldingOurOwn has expressed, but the constant, viscous belittling of him in response is rather disconcerting.
Saying that the Lego Movie is just a film for kids about a plastic toy is a naïve view to have. The truth is, Hollywood is full of anti-business, pro-choice, tree-hugging filmmakers so we really shouldn't be surprised when they produce anti-business, pro-choice, environmentally conscience films.
Last edited by KingLemuel (January 2, 2014 (11:32am))
I'm not sure why people seem to bring up politics all the time. In fact, I'm not even sure what the point of this thread is...
Also, Hollywood film-makers themselves typically work for big business corporation studios which fund and release their films, which leaves us with... something.
Last edited by Mr Vertigo (January 2, 2014 (02:00am))
This thread has run its course, and frankly, what has needed to be said has been said.
I vehemently disagree with the ever-talkative HoldingOurOwn's stance/conduct/opinions, as do a lot of people here, but now as we've made that crystal clear, I think it'd be for the best we just let it be.
Yep, it's time to shut this thread down, but I just want to reiterate a point that's been said a few times.
Why would Hollywood, what's built up of massive businesses ever be anti-business... that's incredibly anti-productive.
Hello, again.
I didn't expect such a passionate response from everyone; I didn't think many even would care that I shared my opinion. I have read the comments of everyone here and have utmost respect for you for honestly sharing your points of view... except for Carousel. While everyone else gave substantive arguments and shared their own view on the Lego Movie, he instead was mired in name-calling, closed-mindedness, and insults and offered nothing to the conversation. Sure, I gave my opinion. But those who replied to my post also exercised their right and deserve my respect for defending their beliefs. For everyone else, I'm glad you are passionate, and the number of posts in such a short time has dispelled my worries that this forum is losing traffic!
I can't respond to all, but I will address some arching comments in your collective replies.
PushOver Productions' knowledge of more of the movie than I do confirms my concerns more. It figures that it's another evil "OIL" tycoon message geared to children. I won't be seeing the movie, as you know, but that's my personal choice. I never was implying that because of that, none of you should watch it either. It's your right to decide. I was only explaining the reasons for my personal choice.
I really am sorry if I gave the impression that I was "talking down". When I write, so that what I am typing isn't accidentally misconstrued, I have a tendency to become overly clear. In print, maybe it comes off as haughtiness. Overclarification is part of my writing style, it's a habit, and not meant to treat readers like children. "Impressionable kids" was referring to those who are much younger than their teen years, not anyone here. I know how today's teens are both smart and savvy, and get the adult world, and, Heck! Just about every brickfilmer has technical expertise to produce brickfilms of a quality I can only dream of!
I referred to my guide (from something longer I posted on BiM over a year ago by request for writing tips). The reference wasn't to make it about me. Everything in the guide on writing came from things I learned from the knowledge of others, and I mention that in the guide itself. I also say often that the guide is me giving back for all the BiM community has taught me. My point was that every brickfimer should have a passion and a message to convey, but it's important to convey that message in a way that's not preachy and turns off half your audience. "Star Wars" and "Lord of the Rongs" have strong messages, for example, but aren't in your face with it.
I'm glad that everyone here, except one, is able to debate our diverse opinions and still have respect for each other. I've always looked up to all of you in the BiM community, and every time I mention to people where I work that I animate with Lego, I always tell them about this web site, and that most everyone here is younger and more talented than I.
I was about to write something snarky but you know what, you are right. I may almost 100% disagree with your political affiliations, but I sympathise with your fear of teaching children stereotypes from the media. I will refuse to watch stuff if it stereotypes gay people or trans*- people, so where is the difference? One can get into a lot of nuances about oppressors and oppressed (the one main difference is that businessmen are possibly the most privileged group in our society while minorities are among the least, so jokes about businessmen are not harmful as jokes at the expense of minorities, but I digress) but one fact remains true: this topic is titled "Why I won't be watching Lego Movie." Yes. Why HoldingOurOwn won't be watching the Lego Movie. That's his choice and who are we to criticize him for it? I won't listen to the song "Baby It's Cold Outside" because I find it sexist and am offended by its perpetration of rape culture, and I vehemently discourage other people from listening to it because of that as well.
That being said, there is a place for societal criticism in film. I don't like films being reduced to just entertainment and in the screenplays I have written I try and include (or maybe focus on) issues I find relevant. For example a theme in the script I'm planning right now is the media's sexualisation of lesbian relationships and why that is harmful. And I think that my preaching is worthwhile because it's what I believe. It's an in-your-face feminist message and that is what I want it to be. To water it down would be defeating the purpose of the film, and erasing identities that are vital to the plot of the film. HoldingOurOwn, I really respect your ambition to be neutral (politically) in your films by giving neutral representation to people of all beliefs, but I don't think every film has to be that way. It all depends on what you are trying to give to audiences.
A final question for you specifically, HoldingOurOwn. Do you think that Brent in your own series is an illustration of stereotypes regarding people with your political affiliation? I find Johnny rather stereotypical of the type he illustrates, because his beliefs accord with mine. Is it really possible to remain completely neutral in any medium, without letting your own beliefs sneak in?
I actually really enjoy this conversation! The reason I don't post often anymore is because I rarely have something to say but this is some fascinating discourse 
Topitmonkeydog, You raise a good question. Brent and Angela (and Melissa and Johnny Strange) represent wildly differing points of view. I try my best to put the stereotypes into the characters' perceptions of each other, rather than their own personalities. ut when I write the character Brent, he is in no way supposed to represent my beliefs and his comments aren't my comments reflected in him. I try to take his views and make him say it in an outlandish way whenever I can. On Melissa/ Johnny's side, I choose Johnny. I actually want to make Johnny's views portrayed as more reasonable than Brent's. My model for Brent is Archie Bunker from "All In The Family", but I actually conciously try to prevent Brent from being a setereotype for his point of view. I do it more consciously with Johnny, trying to portray his opinions more respectfully than Brent! ...Although I have passionate messages (Ep 1: eating animals is natural, ep 2: Don't whitewash history because they are our lessons for today In ep 3, in progess it is fitting because it's "It's fine to disagree, as long as it's civil") they aren't really political messages as they apply to people of all persuasions. And I try to show enough respect to the opinions that are way different than mine that their side is presented fairly. (My friend Mike is a strict vegan and loved episode 1, and found Johnny flatering to the point that he wanted to be in the series and is the voice of Hector Bing in ep 2)
Oh, and Just Kidden, I love your John Kennedy Clone High Avatar.
My whole point when it comes to writing is that it's important to have a message, but do it in a way that's not preachy or overly one-sided. Topitmonkeydog, I know our worldviews are diverse, but our ability to respect each other's right to hold them, and discuss them respectfully, is a wonderful thing.
And pls post more! I thought the forum was starting to die. Maybe you can help consult my future scripts (ep 6 on), but you have to be sworn to secrecy.
Last edited by HoldingOurOwn (January 2, 2014 (09:18am))
I see what you are saying about stereotypes and that is a very interesting way to put it. Also regarding, how the message of the film is expressed, I think the audience must be taken into consideration. You are trying to reach a wider audience than I, so your message isn't as blatant as mine. Also the genre should be accounted for; your sitcom would reach a larger audience as opposed to my dumb arthouse screenplay which isn't really even intended to do well with audiences.
owh i started Not posting in this forum because I thought it was starting to die! that is an unfortunate feedback loop. At the moment I'm focusing more on other kinds of film though. And if you needed me to read some scripts, I'm available whenever! ^^
Oh, and Just Kidden, I love your John Kennedy Clone High Avatar.
NOTHING BAD EVER HAPPENS TO THE KENNEDYS
that's all i have to say now there is nothing else i can contribute to this thread
Wow, so much being brought up in this thread. I kinda agree and disagree with a lot of people - I really don't know what I can add to this.
All I can say is I hope people don't get too angry at each other/hold grudges. We just came off of a positive high two days ago! Let's not ruin it, guys. 
Walter, no grudges here. I welcome all viewpoints, including those wildly different from mine. I know those in the thread who think I'm wrong, except for one, do so too. Whatever your view, the ideas we all expressed here have been thought-provoking.
tl;dr, stop being a baby butt and just go see the awesome movie!
caroll i feel like you arent even paying attention
caroll i feel like you arent even paying attention
You know me to well
Look, I did jump the gun, and subsequently came off admittedly very snarky indeed - and for that I do apologise. The people prior to me (jstudios for one) summed up quite excellently what I was feeling in terms of your post. I felt no need to rehash what they had said, yet I still presented by basic opinions on your post (not you) in a fairly grumpy manner, which was likely the wrong thing to do.
That said, although it could have been presented in a calmer or more eloquent fashion, I do not believe what I wrote to be entirely unjustified.
After debunking another supposedly flawed film, your putting forward of your own films as effectively golden examples of filmmaking, whether intentional or not, was still narcism.
Telling all us supposedly impressionable peeps about how the movies deploy and preach personally disagreeable or false stereotypes and life messages towards children, when in actual fact, you yourself, in your preaching, are doing the exact same thing. Is that not hypocritical?
Thus I find your concerns and their respective justifications over the Lego Movie very odd. The fact that a character portrays the business world in a bad light within the Lego Movie is practically a non-issue. I can appreciate your dislike of stereotypes, but it still a microscopic and extremely insignificant issue in the scope of things. The hypocrisy, narcism and questionable examples of your original post inspired the comment you got.
Last edited by Carousel (January 3, 2014 (03:29pm))
Carousel,
While everyone else who disagreed with my post (Except Carroll films, but he's being funny), your posts were petty, vile personal attacks. And to recycle your favorite quote, "it diminishes your argument", or would have, had you actually had one. That my concerns are a nonissue is your opinion. It is enough of an issue that many cared enough to weigh in. Because you turned personal, you inferred things before rationally thinking about what you read. Because I mentioned one of my cartoons, it's a "shining example" and I'm a narcisist! Countless times my gratitude has been to the BiM community members, most more talented than myself, whose help I'm indebted to for my series' existence. Second, the "impressionable" children are the Lego movie's target audience, an age where they absorb everything, not BiM members. 3) I'm "preachy" for expressing my opinion, though I never told anyone how to think. Your problem is that this contemptuous aditude isn't just towards me, even in your "apology". It's pervasive throughout all your postings. You are the end all & be all on everything. Whatever credibility, if any, you may have had is gone.
Everyone else here from all persuasions were passioned and honest- and civil. They all deserve respect and have mine. Please learn to chill and have a more serene outlook, maybe enjoy life, and face that we share the world with people out there of various opinions.
HoldingOurOwn, I never attacked your character, I merely attacked your argument. Again, I still apologise for the way in which I did so. I should have, at the time, supplied some more points to go along with my paragraph of words, and although I felt it was bouncing off the already present sentiment, I recognise the error in my ways. It did 'diminish' my argument.
That said, I cannot help but to see a double standard forming. You take offense to what I said (on narcism, hypocrisy) in the my previous paragraphs of explanation, yet these same points were covered in much the same way by numerous people on page 1 of this thread, and yet they do not receive scrutiny?
Anyhow, I do enjoy life, I do regularly appreciate others opinions (unless I find their foundation to be a very questionable or very disagreeable: see this thread), and I am actually very sorry for the snarky and general yuck of my original statement.
Last edited by Carousel (January 3, 2014 (03:38pm))
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