Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

Did anyone else notice the clever Sherlock Holmes reference in the Name of the Doctor?

Anyway, I though that was a really interesting episode and you probably shouldn't read this post until after you've seen it.

Both Jenny and Strax have now died twice.  They are now eligible to join the club with Rory, Jack, and Clara.
The explanation for how Clara is impossible works remarkably well.  IT MAKES SENSE!

I like how they didn't actually reveal the Doctor's name, but we got to see an epic reveal anyway.

I'm still a little uncertain on something though.
Is Hurt the REAL Nine? And is Nine really Ten and Ten really Eleven and Eleven really Twelve?  Or is he the Twelfth Doctor?
I think it's the first thing, though I really don't want it to be, because it would confuse everything so much when referring to Doctors.
STILL, it was an epic twist that I didn't see coming.

I'm going to have some trouble waiting for the 50th.  Thanks for the Cliffhanger, Moffat.

Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

Squid wrote:

Did anyone else notice the clever Sherlock Holmes reference in the Name of the Doctor?

Anyway, I though that was a really interesting episode and you probably shouldn't read this post until after you've seen it.

Both Jenny and Strax have now died twice.  They are now eligible to join the club with Rory, Jack, and Clara.
The explanation for how Clara is impossible works remarkably well.  IT MAKES SENSE!

I like how they didn't actually reveal the Doctor's name, but we got to see an epic reveal anyway.

I'm still a little uncertain on something though.
Is Hurt the REAL Nine? And is Nine really Ten and Ten really Eleven and Eleven really Twelve?  Or is he the Twelfth Doctor?
I think it's the first thing, though I really don't want it to be, because it would confuse everything so much when referring to Doctors.
STILL, it was an epic twist that I didn't see coming.

I'm going to have some trouble waiting for the 50th.  Thanks for the Cliffhanger, Moffat.

Yes I agree that was quite the twist at the end and will keep you thinking season premiere. Nice job though did not see it coming.

Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

Ha! Just saw The Name of The Doctor, so now I can finally come back to this thread!
Yeah, that cliff-hanger is rough, but from what I know, Doctor X/Hurt is the real Ninth Doctor, but since The Doctor doesn't really count him as one, I don't either and shall remain with the current numbering scheme.

Anyway, It was a great episode, but it felt just a tad stretched to me, very unlike the previous episodes this series.
For example, I was just about screaming at the screen when Clara was taking forever to jump into the timey-wimey thing, but overall the flaws are few, and the triumphs are many.

Cons: Tiny bit stretched, River's return isn't explained very well, the Whispermen aren't explained at all, the fact that Clara pops all around in The Doctor's life, but he only remembers her from the last couple of meetings, what happened to the GI. (Clara survived the fall, got rescued, GI fell, never heard from again.) And finally, why does the control room from who knows how many years and regenerations later look just like the current one apart from the foliage? (I get the real-world reason, just not the in-universe reason. Although that's a tiny issue hardly worth mentioning.)

Pros: Fantastic clips of the early Doctors, great explanation for the many Claras, wonderful ending that answers many questions, but then grabs you with a great cliff-hanger, the great realization of the Doctor's tomb and the concept behind it, the return of River, and well, just about everything else.

And some random thoughts:
The River/Clara relationship was played very well, but wouldn't Clara now know The Doctor's name from both the Tardis episode, and River's speaking it? That could get interesting. Loved the bigger Tardis/grave thing. Also, The Doctor smashed anybody's last hopes of discounting his and River's marriage, which was nice. I feel that going after the Gang was a bit too weak of a reason to go to his grave, but I'm a bit biased against them anyway, so that's just me. (Although this slightly redeemed them from TCH, I still don't care for them, and was almost glad when Jenny "died." Too bad Strax possess a magic wand, makes death mean absolutely nothing.) This is one of my favorite finales, and that's saying something, as most of the rest have been two-parters and have had a lot more room to develop.

And on Hurt/Doctor X:
Yeah, for now I'm calling him "X" as in unknown, not as in 10, which would be the wrong number anyway.
At first, when I heard the rumors about his being a Doctor, I was totally against it. There would be nothing, absolutely nothing, that should prevent them from simply bringing Paul McGann back. There are in fact many reasons FOR doing it, but now, after watching the episode and pondering on it for a while, I can't wait to see this new guy in action. 50th, you just became a three-Doctor story, and any anticipation I had for you just tripled....At least.

Now, funny enough, this still leaves a lot of questions. Like, the fall of the Eleventh. But I read another review that summed things up pretty well by saying this:

Spoiler (click to read)

This I assume by the fact that the 'dead' TARDIS is extremely similar to the current one which the Doctor arrived in. Observe that there is a crack in the glass when he lands, which the Doctor notices, touches and brushes off with an 'oops'. But then look at the monument, and there that crack is again, blatantly visible and on the same pane. Then we move inside, where the TARDIS interior is the current one. If we were to believe that the Doctor's death is many years and a few incarnations into the future then surely the console room would have changed numerous times? This could mean the production team aren't planning on changing it for however long the show continues, they couldn't be bothered to design a generally 'tomb-like' TARDIS interior to use, or that the TARDIS here is the current one and that the fall of the Eleventh, the question, and silence will fall are all still awaiting us.

This makes perfect sense, and the guy went on to say a lot of things I really agree with, and would love to see happen, so here's a link to it. It's the one by James Nolan in case you miss it.

Now, to reply to a few of the comments I missed...

Max, obviously Doctor Who just isn't the show for you. And that's fine. You don't have to watch or like it. But complaining about it kinda starts comment wars and upsets dedicated fans. I'm not saying to not review things, but maybe you should step back and realize that some shows just aren't for some people, and stop forcing your self to watch something that you hate. If the show was always Doctor-with-no-power, then that'll quickly ruin what many, many people like about it.

I've seen some of the classic stuff, and while it does take some getting used to, and has some very, very low moments, (Peri, being my least favorite companion. Even lower than "Runaway Bride Donna, because at least the latter got better, (A lot better) later on.") but it also has some great stuff in it. Maybe you should give it a try, but if you don't like it, don't force yourself to keep at it.

And for my opinion of Colin Baker, I've not seen that much of him. (Vengeance on Varos, The Two Doctors Part 1, Mindwarp.) But I think he's pretty cool...If only Peri wasn't around all the time. He's different for sure, but I like him.

And Squid, what SH reference, I must have missed it.

And yeah, that's probably a long enough post for now. Feel free to analyze it to pieces....Nicely. mini/wink

Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

mod edit: no thanks.

what could have been: jeffrey and the old man make some robots
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Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

I'm going to miss Max's rantings.
I totally disagree most of the time, but I've actually grown fond of them in a kinda weird way.  He does bring up some valid points.

Do you think the Doctor was helpless enough this time around?

Just Kidden wrote:

that was a horrible doctro what epoisdoe!! there was no monsters or love or antyhint!!

the only good episode of doctro whot was love and monsters!! the rest are pieces of trash!!!

Unlike most people, I actually really liked Love and Monsters, besides the villain.

And Squid, what SH reference, I must have missed it.

In the books, around the very end of Sherlock's days, the detective retires off to live a quiet life of keeping bees.  The Doctor mentioned bee keeping among his possible retirement plans.  Considering Moffat wrote it, I'm pretty sure that was a reference.

Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

Pritchard, you should be blaming me just as equally (or more so) as you are blaming Max. I personally am absolutely sick of being told that just because I view the current era of Doctor Who as a low point that the show isn't for me. "Upsets dedicated fans," I am a bloody dedicated fan, my room is covered in DW posters, I've got heaps of Doctor Who memorabilia, I've seen every new season episode and multitudes of old ones, and maybe I am upset with Doctor Who's current state of being. The reason I watch Doctor Who still is due to a sense of hope that the next episode may improve.

Doctor Who airs in a few hours here, so I'll make up my verdict then, which I'm sure you all are really looking forward to mini/lol

Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

That episode was really something special, its been a while since i've been this impressed with any TV Episode in general. The pacing was fantastic in my opinion, not a boring moment or a moment that was too slow to be found for me. I can't even imagine having an entire season be like this... which would probably never happen.

Spoiler (click to read)

After that episode, "The Name of the Doctor" title is so great. It wasn't about his actual name. It's what the Doctor stands for. Like in Romeo and Juliet, whats in a name? A rose by any other name smell as sweet. That is beautiful.

also

Max Butcher wrote:

What has Clara done by herself? Have any of them single-handedly saved the Doctors life?

Max your comment now renders completely pointless mini/wink

Last edited by Lucas (May 19, 2013 (03:38am))

Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

Spoiler (click to read)

I HATE YOU JOHN HURT!!!

There I was, waiting to abandon Doctor Who forever. The episode was wrapping up and I was ready to say how the episode was a rushed mess - as every single episode is. I was going to rant on and on about how we have no idea who the villain is or why he wants to wreck the universe.

Then John Hurt showed up, and I knew without even seeing him speak that he will be the greatest Doctor of all time - despite how bad the show might still be.

If you don't know - John Hurt is one of the greatest actors alive today, and the only better casting choice for the Doctor would be Sir Ian McKellan (its funny because in the ITV sitcom Vicious, Ian plays an aged actor who is only known for his brief role in Doctor Who. The BBC needs to pick up on this hint...) When I think of a 900 year old alien time-traveller, I think of an old Thespian. I think of Doc Brown crossed with Lawrence Oliver.

So I hate you John Hurt. Because, whilst I'm not going to rant about Doctor Who anymore (not in here anyway...unless it suddenly gets really good), I have no choice but to keep watching now. Screw you, you beautiful man...

Pritchard Studios wrote:

Max, obviously Doctor Who just isn't the show for you. And that's fine. You don't have to watch or like it. But complaining about it kinda starts comment wars and upsets dedicated fans. I'm not saying to not review things, but maybe you should step back and realize that some shows just aren't for some people, and stop forcing your self to watch something that you hate. If the show was always Doctor-with-no-power, then that'll quickly ruin what many, many people like about it.

Thank you for being understanding in my opinion. When most people have a problem with my ranting, they just tell me to leave - usually adding in the tired and useless argument: "If you don't like it, don't watch it" (sorry if I watch something with the expectation that it will be good)

I didn't rant because I hated Doctor Who. When I was younger, I used to go on and on about stuff I hated - but these days, if I hate something I just dismiss it. I dismiss the Westboro Baptist Church. I dismiss Fifty Shades of Grey. I dismiss the Conservative government (and I dismiss UKIP for being no better). I dismiss Hollywood executives who have no idea what art is. I dismiss Sony and Microsoft for ruining the console gaming industry. I dismiss anyone who believes humanity as a whole is unintelligent and needs to be told what to think. And I dismiss anyone that's thrown a homophobic slur at me.

I ranted because, whilst it may not seem like it, I do like Doctor Who...as an idea. The premise is good, and if handled right the show can be absolutely brilliant. The problem is that it isn't handled right - and its best moments seem to be created by accident (rather like Tim Burton's career). This is why I'm interested in the classic series. I'm not expecting Citizen Kane, and I'm open to the fact that some of it might still be bad (thanks for your advice Pritchard) - but it sounds like the classic stuff might be the Doctor Who I see underneath Moffat's incompetent writing and RTD's silliness. There is a good show here. I feel like I'm looking at a beautiful sculpture when the artist has only just begun chipping....only the artist keeps messing up and I'm yelling at him to stop and try again but he just keeps going without listening because I'm only an ant to him.

I only care about stuff that is either really good, or stuff that could be really good. I'm only stopping these rants because 1) I feel like a broken record, and 2) I stepped back and realised not "this show isn't for me" but "I'm expecting Moffat to improve when I'm no-one. What am I hoping to achieve? Why don't I just quietly seethe until I myself am a professional writer who can hopefully write better tales than Moffat. Maybe one day I will write an episode for this show, or maybe I won't be a writer at all. All I know is that I'm going to buy 'Genesis of the Daleks' ASAP"

The Doctor doesn't need to be powerless, but he needs to be more vulnerable. Moffat said that this series would make us "scared for the Doctor", but he is still virtually indestructible. Occasionally James Bond would get kidnapped or tired up or tortured to prove that he's still a human - then when he escapes/survives this predicament through sheer will and strength of mind (rather than deus ex machina) it proves why he is the hero. In recent years, the Doctor hasn't needed to fight for anything. He just happens to know the solution and waits until the right moment to reveal it. Out of no-where he's like "I shall save the day by simply stepping into this shiny thing. Problem solved! I don't even need to wash my jacket!"

Adieu...until the 50th Anniversary....

Last edited by Max Butcher (May 19, 2013 (05:20am))

YouTube
Max, She/Her

Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

Hold on, you thought the episode was rushed? This was one of the better paced episodes of the entire series, Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS, The Crimson Horror, Nightmare in Silver and Hide were rushed. The Name of the Doctor had a nice calm pace to it and didn't rush anything, it explained everything perfectly both visually and dialogue...y. And that it was a mess isn't really something i'd say about this episode in particular this season, I would say that Nightmare in Silver and Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS was a mess...

Spoiler (click to read)

ALSO, The silence will Fall arc has now been fulfilled! It wasn't overly explained (thank god) But it happened just like it's been teased in Series 6. The line from Dorium was "on the fields of Trenzalore, at the fall of the Eleventh, a question will be asked and silence will fall" or something like that. It all now happened (Fields of Trenzalore and the question being the obvious ones.  Now the other 2, the fall of the eleventh were the Doctor and Clara falling to Trenzalore in the TARDIS which I believe is the reason why Moffat added the line "we fall" which was said by the doctor. The Eleventh did fall, quite literally. And finally, the silence did fall as the question was answered by River so now the Silence have fallen. It's things like this that makes me appreciate the Moffat era more than RTD's. There is so much more going on under the surface instead of RTD's blatant word or phrases he shoves up in our face expecting us to believe it's important (Bad Wolf, Torchwood). Those arc's are terribly put together. Also Dorium said something like "When no living creature can fail to answer" or something... well that was also fulfilled since it was River who said it and she wasn't alive at that point.

Last edited by Lucas (May 19, 2013 (05:33am))

Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

I think you guys mean the eighth doctor cuz eccelston was the 9th and David Tennant was the 10th with Matt Smith being the 11th.
Sylvester McKoy was the 7th doctor and appeared in the Doctor Who
movie before he turned into the 8th doctor who was played by Paul McGann.

Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

I dont even recall us talking about any of the doctors.

Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

[/quote=Squid]Did anyone else notice the clever Sherlock Holmes reference in the Name of the Doctor?
I did.

I think the episode was amazing. I am very excited for the 50th. If only we didn't have to wait till November 23rd. David and Billie are coming back, pumped for that.

I also loved how they showed all the other regenerations, it was also very good that they did not reveal The Doctor's name. I thought Jenny was gone for good when she died. Question? Does anyone think River will come back?

Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

Lucas wrote:

I dont even recall us talking about any of the doctors.

Scroll back up and you will see what I am referring to.

Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

Whilst I really didn't enjoy the idiotic processes and events of the episode, I indeed liked the end result, and by that I don't mean the silly Clara resolution, I mean...

...the setting up of this lost, time war hardened supposed actual 9th Doctor, who also happens to be played by John Hurt.

Also, as I and my opinions are now solely alone on this thread, and because I've stated my views and am now starting to sound like a screechy old record, I too have decided to disembark from this thread for a bit.

I'll leave you with something to savour, an article I recently found and of which I completely agree with, on the current state of the writing and story lines in Doctor Who.

Put your preconceived notions behind you, and just read it:

http://www.hypable.com/2013/04/30/steve … howrunner/

The comments on the article restored my faith in the Doctor Who community.

Farewell for now.

Last edited by Carousel (May 20, 2013 (01:55am))

Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

Oh how fun that it came from Hypable hahah, love that place and I know some of the people working there.

No but seriously the third one makes no sense, Moffat's era has done a perfect job of building up a season long arc. Series 5 was perfect in this regard, it set up a ton of mysteries that kept being built up during the entire series (The silence is mentioned in like 5 episodes of series 5) and also the cracks. The cracks didn't just appear... in  Flesh & Stone we found out exactly what it was but we still didn't really know where it came from, in Cold Blood the Doctor found a piece of the tardis in the crack... it was constant build up until the climactic finale. In Series 1 it was just... oh Bad wolf is on the TARDIS... oh it says Bad Wolf on the ground... it was no build up at all, why the hell would we care? Series 6 was even more of this, the Silence was appearing more and more and even new arcs were set up, the first 7 episodes had the eye patch woman that Amy keep seeing and then the finale 6 were mostly about the Doctor's death and the question. Series 2 had... wait what did it have? I can't really remember but I think it was Torchwood... which is the same as Bad Wolf so screw that. RTD is just rushing his resolution, it's like he doesn't know what to do so he just reveals it in one line and then it's over and most of the time it's just random and makes little to no sense. And i'm SO FRICKIN' TIRED OF HIS FINALES, holy s**t every season finale was someone invading earth and 3 of those times IT WAS THE DALEKS. If there's anyone that is repeating their stories it's Russel T frickin' Davies. He seems to think that 1 billion Daleks means epic and huge but it's not, the season finale of Series 5 is way more epic and huge because in the end it was about a little girl who waited for the doctor who never came back. Epic doesn't have to literally means huge, something deep and personal means much more then a copout resolution to the cliffhanger in The Stolen Earth (there's alot of copouts in RTD's scripts).
And now Series 7 has been more subtle, the doctor being whiped from all the databases, who's Clara, Doctor who? and The Great Intelligence. Still alot is going on that is linking every episode while mostly all of them from RTD's era has nothing to do with anything.

I also don't get why the series are "over complicated", I followed them just fine and it was always fun to speculate with friends after each episodes what different things could mean and what it would lead up to. I missed that a bit with Series 7 and I didn't care at all in series 1-4 because it was just boring and uninteresting words being thrown around with no build up (seriously would anyone connect Bad Wolf and Rose? No build up at all for the audience to speculate while in Series 6, the second episode ended with a young girl regenerating in New York which we could speculate was River and in Episode 8 it was fully confirmed what had happened.)

Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

(The following is my opinion on Dr.Who)
I really feel that since Matt Smith has played the Doctor the series for myself
has gone from must watch TV to above average.
For the longest time I felt it was Matt Smiths portrayal that was
the problem. But the real problem in reality is the above average writing the series has
had since Matt Smith has played the doctor.
They have in my opinion gotten away from has made this series so great and taken it in a direction
that really does not make a whole lot of sense at times.
They have a world of villains they seem to ignore and when they do use them
drop the ball and put out a less then stellar episode.
This unfortunately all began once the master Russell P Davies left the series.
The writers now seem to have forgotten what has made this series so great and why it has
been around for 50 years
Heck is there a reason why we don't see Captain Jack anymore?
I am sorry but Dr.Who has to get back to what has made it so great.
I hope they rectify this for the 50th year of Dr.Who.
Again this is my opinion and mine alone.
I think after following it for so long I am entitled to one.

Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

Lucas, your spiel makes little to no sense, I'll spell out its issues in a non-ranting organised list:

- The article clearly stated that Series 5 did indeed have an overriding season arc, and did not really dispute that fact.
- The whole crack theme was an almost exact clone of the Bad Wolf strategy, yet you miraculously think them apparently different. Just think about it.
- Season 6 onwards has had somewhat disjointed arcs over episodes that were not-only unrelated but non-meaningful and displayed a severe lack of character development. The silly half seasons, amongst other things, are partially to blame.
- Don't get me started on your odd view of the first season. Crazy.
- Whilst the 2nd and 3rd season's finals weren't the best and there was some silly stuff (and yes I agree that Russell overused the Daleks), don't lecture about theses supposed heartfelt and subtle endings of the Moffat era. You call the monotonous and ever-common cases of bringing people back to life, the frequent pressing of the restore-the-universe-button, the gathering of every foe in the universe, the riding of mammoths, the pyramids-with-trains-in-them subtle?

I need say no more. Think it through.

Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

Every once in a while, you come across something that says exactly what you've been trying to say for years but just haven't been able to phrase it correctly. That article you found Carousel is definitely one of those things.

OK, OK, I'm out of here now...just forgot my phone....

YouTube
Max, She/Her

Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

It wasn't just a crack appearing randomly... Just like I said, we found out more about it troughout the season, it wasn't just something they showed only to come up with a dumb out of no where explanation for it later on you can clearly see when you rewatch the season that Moffat knew exactly what was going on and where the crack arc was leading to which you never get with Bad Wolf as it has literally no build up, showing the word doesn't mean it's been built up to something... the crack story arc is not an exact clone of the Bad Wolf arc at all.

Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

I was actually a little bit annoyed with the cracks how they just shoved them in your face.  Like LOOK AT IT! LOOK AT IT! LOOK AT HOW MYSTERIOUS IT IS!

I would have preferred it if it were more like a subtle thing in the background which you may not notice on the first watch, like Bad Wolf.