Re: That's not the Force, THIS is the Force...unleashed

I really liked the animation in this and some of the camera angles. Some well done stuff for sure. But I'm a little confused as to why your using LEGO figures when you don't really seem to be going for a LEGO look? Why use a minifig if your just going to go and give him a realistic looking lightsaber? I think you should go either all LEGO environment, or completely remove all the LEGO. Perhaps just my thoughts...

Not at all trying to be aggressive or anything, just trying to get where your coming from.

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/jamit/LAMLradioEps/sig.gifhttp://www.majhost.com/gallery/jamit/LAMLradioEps/sig2.gif

Re: That's not the Force, THIS is the Force...unleashed

BGanimations wrote:

I have a question for you Lech. How would you use the Blender particle system to make the fighters and ships fire lasers, like you do in many of your films.

I'm not familiar with Blender's particle system but the general principles are the same: the particle system, the particle emitter, # of particles emitted per second, speed, direction disbursement, mass, lifespan and the particle itself.

The gist about particle systems can be found here.

Assuming that Blender's particle system is primitive at minimum, you can place the particle system right where the gun barrel is and align it so particles will emit out of the cannon.  If it has a disbursement angle setting, set it to zero because the lasers should be firing straight and not in multiple directions (up to you, though).  Everything else (speed, size, lifespan, etc.) you can specify.  As for the laser bolt, that's depends.  I went with a elongated sphere with a aura glow around it.

JamesW wrote:

But I'm a little confused as to why your using LEGO figures when you don't really seem to be going for a LEGO look? Why use a minifig if your just going to go and give him a realistic looking lightsaber? I think you should go either all LEGO environment, or completely remove all the LEGO. Perhaps just my thoughts...

Not at all trying to be aggressive or anything, just trying to get where your coming from.

I'm not sure where I'm coming from myself.  But after some thought, here's what I have: You should be asking me why LEGO at all?  Why not human models, why not realistic textures and detailed buildings and creatures that weren't from a MLCAD file?  Thing is, I'm not an artist in that sense.  I'm all about round numbers and perpendicular angles so I couldn't sculpt the Venus de Milo in CGI if I wanted to.  I was certainly a purist when I started doing brickfilms in CGI, but things change (disproportionate models, altered pieces).  Besides, if you think about: There are custom guns made just for LEGO.  So why not custom lightsaber hilts that look realistic (actually, I modeled the hilts for a minifig's hand and the ignition tip to fit the bar piece, so they're not that realistic).  I'm sure people have altered their pieces to fit their needs in animation (makes me cringe sometimes to see a chopped up handle being used as a gun, or a clone trooper helmet altered for a Clone commando fig).  Plus, without that minifig head on your Vong, it wouldn't be all LEGO.

Basically, I want to create a brickfilm, but couldn't in stop-motion, so I do it in CGI, and took some creative liberties on certain things (scaled up ship models, altered hair pieces, custom lightsaber hilts, etc.).

What's your reason for unrestricted neck and shoulder movement and scale down round bricks as Kit Fisto's dreads?  I guess it's all about personal style among CGI brickfilmers.  There are those who want the models to look as real as possible (gaps between bricks for instance), some want every element to be in brick (from fire to blood) or just the figs to be brick and everything else created from scratch, and most don't stick to 1:1 scale ratio (obviously you don't want to make a Venator-class Republic Star Destroyer to scale with a minifig).

We are impressionist of the brickfilming art.

Last edited by Lechnology (March 22, 2010 (03:34am))

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Re: That's not the Force, THIS is the Force...unleashed

Okay, thank you Lech, I think all I have to do now is learn how to use the extreme basics of the particle system, then I'm confident I can manage.

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/BGanimations/Signatures/final_400x100.png

Re: That's not the Force, THIS is the Force...unleashed

Good response, lots in there. Let's see if I can respond.

Lechnology wrote:

I'm not sure where I'm coming from myself.  But after some thought, here's what I have: You should be asking me why LEGO at all?  Why not human models, why not realistic textures and detailed buildings and creatures that weren't from a MLCAD file?

Actually, that was what I was trying to ask. For example, in your video (the whole point of the thread) you have minifigs, but that is it. So, to simplify the question, is that because it is a test that you have no LEGO environment or is that something you plan to use in the future?

(On re-watching, I see that one of your props is made out of LEGO. My bad.)

Lechnology wrote:

Plus, without that minifig head on your Vong, it wouldn't be all LEGO.

I think you might be surprised by the amount of LEGO pieces I was able to stick on that guy. Check out the mid-section, the back "things" (no idea what to call them), and the hands and feet. And always during designing/modeling him I tried to keep in mind that I'm creating a brickfilm. It has to have a LEGO feel or I should give up on that project and switch over to another style. Realistic, cartoon, whatever. Just not LEGO.

Lechnology wrote:

What's your reason for unrestricted neck and shoulder movement and scale down round bricks as Kit Fisto's dreads?  I guess it's all about personal style among CGI brickfilmers.  There are those who want the models to look as real as possible (gaps between bricks for instance), some want every element to be in brick (from fire to blood)

I haven't actually decided yet on how my minifigs will move. Unrestricted movement allows me, of course, to animate more. But then if that is what I'm aiming for, as I said above, I should be looking elsewhere.

I'll say again I'm not trying to attack your stuff in anyway. Just enjoying the chance to talk a little CGI Brickfilm "philosophy" mini/lol

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/jamit/LAMLradioEps/sig.gifhttp://www.majhost.com/gallery/jamit/LAMLradioEps/sig2.gif

Re: That's not the Force, THIS is the Force...unleashed

JamesW wrote:

Good response, lots in there. Let's see if I can respond.

Lechnology wrote:

I'm not sure where I'm coming from myself.  But after some thought, here's what I have: You should be asking me why LEGO at all?  Why not human models, why not realistic textures and detailed buildings and creatures that weren't from a MLCAD file?

Actually, that was what I was trying to ask. For example, in your video (the whole point of the thread) you have minifigs, but that is it. So, to simplify the question, is that because it is a test that you have no LEGO environment or is that something you plan to use in the future?

(On re-watching, I see that one of your props is made out of LEGO. My bad.)

To answer simply: Yes, experiment and pre-viz-wise, no set to speak of.  We've all been there, waiting hours to render a complete scene only to find something wrong with the fig animation or the set itself and have to start over.  Better to animate first under low quality rendering parameters and make sure the pacing of everything is to your liking before making the environment visible.  Mythical Bailout has what you're looking for in terms of brick sets and it took at last a day for some of the shots to be rendered with the full set.

I'm with you on the LEGO feel.  I can sculpt the head of a Ithorian but if there's no minifig body to go with it, it's not a minifig Ithorian.  And I know it's part the discussion but it would seem we believe in this philosophy: that there are times we can't devote entirely to the LEGO brand look.  Trademark infringements for one thing, we have to have some creative liberties.

JamesW wrote:

I haven't actually decided yet on how my minifigs will move. Unrestricted movement allows me, of course, to animate more. But then if that is what I'm aiming for, as I said above, I should be looking elsewhere.

I personally have no problem with unrestricted arm movements as long as it's not the LEGO arm piece.  LEGO video games like LEGO Star Wars seem to break from the rigid plastic look with flexible arm, leg and neck.

JamesW wrote:

I'll say again I'm not trying to attack your stuff in anyway. Just enjoying the chance to talk a little CGI Brickfilm "philosophy" mini/lol

Ditto, and with that, I think as long as you have brick elements and minifigs, then it should count as a brickfilm attempt.  Custom arms and legs that look like LEGO brand pieces but its movements don't defy physics (passing through other pieces) I would find acceptable (actually, I went against my philosophy with the cellist and guitarist in Apologize).

https://i.imgur.com/4b9NnS3.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/GUIl0qk.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/ox64uld.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/v3iyhE5.png

Re: That's not the Force, THIS is the Force...unleashed

Just two small questions by themselves for you on particles Lech. Here's number one: How do you make all of the particles origionate from the middle of an object. I made a (really) rought particles test and that, besides number two, was the only think I didn't fully get perfect, although it's near-perfect, it's not much away from the center.

Number two: How to I get the particles to change angles along with the cannon of emitter? Say the fighter was swooping down for an attack run, but wait! The blaster bolts are flying perfectly lateral and not one hits it's target, even though the cannon is pointed straight for it! How would I solve this in an actual animation?

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/BGanimations/Signatures/final_400x100.png

Re: That's not the Force, THIS is the Force...unleashed

BGanimations wrote:

How do you make all of the particles origionate from the middle of an object. I made a (really) rought particles test and that, besides number two, was the only think I didn't fully get perfect, although it's near-perfect, it's not much away from the center.

Number two: How to I get the particles to change angles along with the cannon of emitter? Say the fighter was swooping down for an attack run, but wait! The blaster bolts are flying perfectly lateral and not one hits it's target, even though the cannon is pointed straight for it! How would I solve this in an actual animation?

It looks like Blender limits particle system to only emit from a mesh.  Pity.  In this case, you should use a plane scaled down to a very small size so that it looks like it's originating from a single point.  And you should mount the plane onto the ships' cannon, i.e. make it a child of the cannon.  Some rendering posts would be helpful

https://i.imgur.com/4b9NnS3.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/GUIl0qk.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/ox64uld.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/v3iyhE5.png

Re: That's not the Force, THIS is the Force...unleashed

Okay, my mom's on the desktop computer right now, and that's the computer I do all of my 3D stuff on, so I can't post any render picture at the moment, but she'll probably get off in a half an hour or so, maybe longer though. I never thought of scaling it down or parenting anything though, I was too busy looking for how to solve it in the particle emitter itself! mini/lol

[Offtopic] I really like the Vong minifig you made there James. It looks so good that it makes me want to make something similar to it myself.

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/BGanimations/Signatures/final_400x100.png

Re: That's not the Force, THIS is the Force...unleashed

DOUBLE POST!!!

I tried a quick animation test trying to parent it, but I'm not sure how to make the emitter a child so that the particles follow it.

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/BGanimations/Signatures/final_400x100.png

Re: That's not the Force, THIS is the Force...unleashed

So I'm assuming that you go parenting to work? (select one object, select a second object, that second object is the parent, Ctrl+P to parent).  For a fast moving ship shooting bullets or lasers, obviously, the bullets/lasers have to move faster than the ship so you'll have to clarify on the particles following the emitter.  In general, the particles have to be moving very fast.  However, I've noticed Blender has a max on the speed of the particle at 200.  Hmm...

https://i.imgur.com/4b9NnS3.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/GUIl0qk.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/ox64uld.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/v3iyhE5.png

Re: That's not the Force, THIS is the Force...unleashed

Well, I'll just mess around with a bunch of stuff later. Right now I'm working with Boids (I think that's how you spell it)! They're little particles that run around doing their own thing, without you having to animate them! Imagine how much time that would save if two armies had to fight each other... mini/bigsmile  I'm rendering the animation right now. Maybe I could make a boid test of a bunch of ants running around.

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/BGanimations/Signatures/final_400x100.png

Re: That's not the Force, THIS is the Force...unleashed

Here's a pre-viz rendering

I rendered at 60 fps, time remapped in After Effects to fix the pacing (and add the brief slow-motion) and exported at 30 FPS.

https://i.imgur.com/4b9NnS3.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/GUIl0qk.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/ox64uld.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/v3iyhE5.png