Topic: The use of CGI in films...

Hello fellow LEGO muuvie-ers.

Those of you who know me know that I love computer generated animation and effects. I think they can add a lot to a film and give a director the freedom to tell a story without boundaries. That being said, they also need to be used wisely, and some of my films have essentially become extended effects tests because I was focused on cool effects, not a great story.

The brickfilming community puzzles me in that quite a few of you seem to have a sort of conviction against the use of computer generated effects in brickfilms. Below are a couple of quotes to prove my point. I'm sure that if I looked a little harder, I could find many more statements like these.

zwan wrote:

...by principle I refuse to use 3D cgi...

LegoDudez wrote:

You add too much CGI and we prefer real stuff...

To me these statements seem completely illogical. "Principle"? Zwan refuses to use 3d CG (Not just any kind of CGI - he uses greenscreening and 2d effects - only 3d) based on "principle"? I'm not just picking on him, he only gives a good example.

I'd love to understand your viewpoint better, so here are a few questions on the subject.

1) Given that the work we do is an illusion (animation, even video itself and storytelling), what exactly is it that you dislike about another illusion technique (CGI)? That it is not "real?" Neither is the movement on the screen, the story, the characters, the action, the sound, or the violence in any brickfilm. Do you have a more convincing reason?

2) If I could create CGI that was completely indistinguishable from real footage, would you condemn that as well? What if I did not tell you that it was CG, and you never noticed? What is the difference to you, the person experiencing the illusion?

Thanks!

- Leo

Re: The use of CGI in films...

I do like CGI in films, but only mildly, a lot of your films contain to much CG and not enough animation, now I don't mind effects like greenscreening  to be overused, and I'm sorry, but you do go overboard. Now I don't mind tiny things ling the far edge of a city where no real detail can be seen, but still. I'm partially with LegoDudez and partially with Zwan. Sorry

Re: The use of CGI in films...

Well I guess the approach I tend to take is that I'll do whatever I need to do to create the kinds of visuals I want in the film.  If something is going to be impossible to do without extensive CG work, I don't write it out of the script, I go ahead and keep it in the script.  That said, I do use real, physical models as much as I can but it's not always feasible.

This reminds me a bit of the criticism that the CG in, say, Star Wars Episode I, looked fake.  George Lucas's response was something to the effect that the CG in Episode I wasn't any more "fake" than the rubber masks in the cantina from the first movie.

-Philip

http://i.imgur.com/wcmcdmf.png

Re: The use of CGI in films...

LegoDudez wrote:

You add too much CGI and we prefer real stuff...

Who is this "we" you speak of? Because it doesn't include me.

Adding CGI is a skill that not everyone can do. If someone has it, they cant use it? I very much like CGI.

http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/fib12345/Lolz/lulz.png
"actuallly this involves spiderman too, not batman. but im also taking a new approach, more comedy, less action. i dont see to many movies like that with more comedy than action" --SteveStarfyTV on an Indiana Jones meets Star Wars idea.

Re: The use of CGI in films...

I don't really like CG in brickfilms because it seems too serious for a film made with plastic child's toys.
I think it takes away from the Lego-ey aspect of the film. It makes the film seem out of the Lego universe IMO.

Re: The use of CGI in films...

LEGO Universe? You realize that whole game is CG. mini/lol

But not all brickfilms are comical. Some are serious, such as Unrenewable, Grace, etc...

http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/fib12345/Lolz/lulz.png
"actuallly this involves spiderman too, not batman. but im also taking a new approach, more comedy, less action. i dont see to many movies like that with more comedy than action" --SteveStarfyTV on an Indiana Jones meets Star Wars idea.

Re: The use of CGI in films...

if it works then use it, if you need flying elephants in a dream sequence then cue the flying elephants!

You Tube, http://www.youtube.com/user/MaxVegasProductions
"I spend my time hunched over in my room taking thousands of pictures of a children's toy in 1 millimeter increments to create the illusion of movement. Pretty sexy huh?" -Gojira

Re: The use of CGI in films...

lil'jj wrote:

I do like CGI in films, but only mildly, a lot of your films contain to much CG and not enough animation, now I don't mind effects like greenscreening  to be overused, and I'm sorry, but you do go overboard. Now I don't mind tiny things ling the far edge of a city where no real detail can be seen, but still. I'm partially with LegoDudez and partially with Zwan. Sorry

A little clarification here. I'm not looking for what you guys like or don't like. I already know that a lot of you dislike CGI. What I want to know is why. Why do a lot of computer generated effects degrade a film in your eyes? If they were indistinguishable from reality, would you still care?

Moo-C-J wrote:

I don't really like CG in brickfilms because it seems too serious for a film made with plastic child's toys.
I think it takes away from the Lego-ey aspect of the film. It makes the film seem out of the Lego universe IMO.

CG? Serious? Do you realize that 90% of all CG films made today are cartoons made for children? Most of those are comedies. Saying that a medium is too "serious" is illogical. It would be like saying that stop-motion is too serious or that live-action is too serious. The medium is neutral. You can make comedies or romances or horror films with just about any medium.

Again, if CGI effects in a film were indistinguishable from the real LEGO bricks that you see almost every day, would you care?

- Leo

Re: The use of CGI in films...

I see nothing wrong with using CGI in Brickfilms. However, I wish it would look more realistic, and blend in better. I think Plant did pretty good at this.

One thing that really bugs me is when people do spaceships in CGI. I have yet to see a CGI ship in a film that moves realistically, or who's movements aren't copied exactly for other ships (Ladon's Triumph of the Empire); plus, it is also possible to just take a real model of a LEGO spaceship an just greenscreen that in (Jay's Rise of the Empire).

"[It] was the theme song for the movie 2010 first contact." ~ A YouTuber on Also Sprach Zarathustra
CGI LEGO! Updated occasionally...

Re: The use of CGI in films...

lil'jj wrote:

your films contain to much CG and not enough animation

You do realize that CG models have to be animated as well, right?

Leo, I think these purists don't like is that they feel it's cheating to not use real LEGO bricks. The feel that all bricks found in a brickfilm should be real bricks. It's not what is done with the CGI models that's the issue, it's the tactile reality of the models themselves. I see their point, and to each his own... but I think that some ideas just can't realistically be done without CGI.

Personally, I think CG can be abused, and poorly done CG can be extremely distracting, but in some cases there's no other way. Aside from buying several thousand dollars worth of bricks and spending several hundred hours to put them together and animate on them.

With all due respect Noodle, I don't want you here. - Ratboy Productions

Re: The use of CGI in films...

I like CGI films, don't get me wrong, but your films are about 90% CGI though. You need to even it out.

Re: The use of CGI in films...

lil'jj wrote:

I like CGI films, don't get me wrong, but your films are about 90% CGI though. You need to even it out.

How do some of the peoples here survive watching Pixar movies?

meme
http://i.imgur.com/gMfjgiC.jpg

Re: The use of CGI in films...

HeAndHimStudios wrote:
lil'jj wrote:

I like CGI films, don't get me wrong, but your films are about 90% CGI though. You need to even it out.

How do some of the peoples here survive watching Pixar movies?

The same way we survive watching live action films, or hand drawn films. The popcorn helps keep our brains stable, because you have to reach in, grab popcorn, pull hand out, eat popcorn, reach in, grab, pull out, eat, and so on.

Last edited by Littlebrick (June 30, 2009 (07:20pm))

"[It] was the theme song for the movie 2010 first contact." ~ A YouTuber on Also Sprach Zarathustra
CGI LEGO! Updated occasionally...

Re: The use of CGI in films...

You do realize that Leo still has to do the tedious walking animation, setbuilding, he just covers it up with CGI to make it look better.

http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/fib12345/Lolz/lulz.png
"actuallly this involves spiderman too, not batman. but im also taking a new approach, more comedy, less action. i dont see to many movies like that with more comedy than action" --SteveStarfyTV on an Indiana Jones meets Star Wars idea.

Re: The use of CGI in films...

Yeah, I know. I love his films... alright, Leo nothing is wrong with your films. I'm sorry

Re: The use of CGI in films...

i dont have anything wrong with it as long as it doesnt look to crazy and stuff.if it kinda blends in, its great.the movie imworking on now i did a short scene that used alittle CG stuff, but it didnt look to good so i got rid of it.

Re: The use of CGI in films...

I wrote:

I don't really like CG in brickfilms because it seems too serious for a film made with plastic child's toys.
I think it takes away from the Lego-ey aspect of the film. It makes the film seem out of the Lego universe IMO.

Leo wrote:

CG? Serious? Do you realize that 90% of all CG films made today are cartoons made for children? Most of those are comedies. Saying that a medium is too "serious" is illogical. It would be like saying that stop-motion is too serious or that live-action is too serious. The medium is neutral. You can make comedies or romances or horror films with just about any medium.

Again, if CGI effects in a film were indistinguishable from the real LEGO bricks that you see almost every day, would you care?

I'm fine with the cartoons. I just feel CG doesn't fit with the medium of Lego.
If the CG was indistinguishable from real Lego I don't think I would mind, but I'm not totally sure on that.

Re: The use of CGI in films...

I can understand where Moo is coming from.

Say you were buying a camera. One is a nice Canon powershot. The other looks similar, and runs exactly the same. Same firmware and all. You can buy the powershot, for $300, or the off brand for $50. Great deal for pretty much the same item, but you want the real deal. The actual brand.

http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/fib12345/Lolz/lulz.png
"actuallly this involves spiderman too, not batman. but im also taking a new approach, more comedy, less action. i dont see to many movies like that with more comedy than action" --SteveStarfyTV on an Indiana Jones meets Star Wars idea.

Re: The use of CGI in films...

I think CGI owns mini/tongue

''You don't have to tell him how great is coffee is man!''

Re: The use of CGI in films...

Moo-C-J wrote:
I wrote:

I don't really like CG in brickfilms because it seems too serious for a film made with plastic child's toys.
I think it takes away from the Lego-ey aspect of the film. It makes the film seem out of the Lego universe IMO.

Leo wrote:

CG? Serious? Do you realize that 90% of all CG films made today are cartoons made for children? Most of those are comedies. Saying that a medium is too "serious" is illogical. It would be like saying that stop-motion is too serious or that live-action is too serious. The medium is neutral. You can make comedies or romances or horror films with just about any medium.

Again, if CGI effects in a film were indistinguishable from the real LEGO bricks that you see almost every day, would you care?

I'm fine with the cartoons. I just feel CG doesn't fit with the medium of Lego.
If the CG was indistinguishable from real Lego I don't think I would mind, but I'm not totally sure on that.

That is what I am trying to say.

welp
Formerly LegoDudez