• Joined: April 10, 2013

Topic: The Five of the Pit (Western)

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The Five of the Pit

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Five men meet at a pit. Each had affairs with at least one of the others.
The Five of the Pit is the middle chapter of the Vengeance Trilogy. It's main plot is based off loosely from the concept of the film "The Hateful Eight", although shares nothing else with that film, and instead follows a Sergio Leonesque spaghetti western style, with various flashbacks. Flashbacks might seem confusing, but at a close view everything is explained.

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Last edited by LegoStudiosP (July 22, 2016 (02:22am))

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Re: The Five of the Pit (Western)

We need more Westerns in the Brickfilming community, so I was eager to watch this after I saw your trailer. There were some successes, you really channeled those Spaghetti Western vibes at times which was good and I think the general idea was smart too. This is an improvement from your other stuff, animation was alright but obviously could always be better. The most polarizing aspect of your film was the editing, at times it really made it feel like a Leone film notably during the rapid cutting between the eyes towards the end but it really failed to sell the impact of anything that happened. The flashbacks especially were confusingly edited and shot and I'd have to go back multiple times to really understand them. I realize that this is hard to do in the short timeframe of a brickfilm but Westerns are supposed to be slow burns with short outbursts of extreme violence, that was the idea of the revolver during that time period: it could be drawn at any time and if it was, it was certain to be quick and deadly. But there are supposed to be long periods of buildup where this doesn't happen. Maybe after you refine your general techniques you should create a longer, slower burning Western.

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Re: The Five of the Pit (Western)

LiamG wrote:

We need more Westerns in the Brickfilming community, so I was eager to watch this after I saw your trailer. There were some successes, you really channeled those Spaghetti Western vibes at times which was good and I think the general idea was smart too. This is an improvement from your other stuff, animation was alright but obviously could always be better. The most polarizing aspect of your film was the editing, at times it really made it feel like a Leone film notably during the rapid cutting between the eyes towards the end but it really failed to sell the impact of anything that happened. The flashbacks especially were confusingly edited and shot and I'd have to go back multiple times to really understand them.

First of all, thanks for stopping by and saying something, that's always a relief, and for praising what was good. I never say thatI do perfect films, definitely not from the animation point of view, but that's something I'm trying step by step to improve. On the fast flashbacks, as you noted I took a lot of cinematography from Leone westerns, but that's an influence of Christopher Nolan films. It was intentional that they would be confusing and very brief.
I also agree that there are very few westerns and even less that actually have the right pacing for a western film. Westerns aren't action-packed shootouts.

I realize that this is hard to do in the short timeframe of a brickfilm but Westerns are supposed to be slow burns with short outbursts of extreme violence Maybe after you refine your general techniques you should create a longer, slower burning Western.

I'm not a mothrtongue speaker, so I don't fully understand what do you mean by "slower burning Western". You're suggesting me to do a longer Western? The fact is that, as I assume you saw because of how you said I improved in the time, I used to do longer brickfilms until I was suggested to shorten my films, that's how I came up with these Western shorts. I do have in project to shoot a third Western with the same main Character, wich would also have a slightly more articulated story too, but I esteem it to be about 7-10 minutes, maybe a little more. I tried to do this sudden violence/slowness counterposition eith the beginning, where the Vengeful drinks, if that's also what you implied, but I agree, with this film's briefness, adding that sort of setting was difficult.

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Re: The Five of the Pit (Western)

Hey, I'm still awaiting for a rating! Don't be shy, give it a vote out of 5!

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Re: The Five of the Pit (Western)

Right when I mean slower burning western I'm talking about something long with lots of build up. So think something like Unforgiven rather than Django Unchained, something where the first majority of the film not much happens besides discussion and tension rising until finally there's a single climactic quick ending where the plot is resolved.

I'm not sure whether to suggest currently making your films longer or shorter, it's really up to you. Just keep at it and refine your animation and editing and everything until you're at a point where you are very happy with your product. Then you can look into that long Western idea. Cheers!

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Re: The Five of the Pit (Western)

LiamG wrote:

Right when I mean slower burning western I'm talking about something long with lots of build up. So think something like Unforgiven rather than Django Unchained, something where the first majority of the film not much happens besides discussion and tension rising until finally there's a single climactic quick ending where the plot is resolved.

I'm not sure whether to suggest currently making your films longer or shorter, it's really up to you. Just keep at it and refine your animation and editing and everything until you're at a point where you are very happy with your product. Then you can look into that long Western idea. Cheers!

Right, I assumed afterall you meant that. That's what I like too better, rather a "once upon a time in the west" pacing than a modern western's one.

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Re: The Five of the Pit (Western)

I have to say I agree with a lot of points LiamG made. I'd like to go over them in quotes.

LiamG wrote:

We need more Westerns in the Brickfilming community

There is a lot of genres that are lacking in brickfilming, but you're right especially when it comes to Westerns. There have been infant quite a bunch that did really well but alas theres not many. In fact they've become a lot rarer in the present.

I realize that this is hard to do in the short timeframe of a brickfilm but Westerns are supposed to be slow burns with short outbursts of extreme violence, that was the idea of the revolver during that time period: it could be drawn at any time and if it was, it was certain to be quick and deadly. But there are supposed to be long periods of buildup where this doesn't happen.

LiamG wrote:

The most polarizing aspect of your film was the editing, at times it really made it feel like a Leone film notably during the rapid cutting between the eyes towards the end but it really failed to sell the impact of anything that happened. The flashbacks especially were confusingly edited and shot and I'd have to go back multiple times to really understand them.

Another great point mentioned is the editing. For me personally I rather enjoyed the rapid cutting but as LiamG mentions the ending of rapid cutting seemed rather irrelevent. If you are going to do rapid cutting there needs to be a good reason for it. What is the climax and what was the reason for the rapid cutting towards the end? This for me was confusing, even tho I enjoyed the film.
The flashbacks were a little confusing as well, mainly because they were framed and colored exactly as the present in the film. It would have been nice to had some kind of transition of black and white or sepia at least for the viewers to acknowledge it was a flashback. Remember when you write a script, you don't write it for yourself you write it for the viewers. You may know what the characters are thinking, but that doesn't mean we will. Just something to remember for next time.

LiamG wrote:

I realize that this is hard to do in the short timeframe of a brickfilm but Westerns are supposed to be slow burns with short outbursts of extreme violence, that was the idea of the revolver during that time period: it could be drawn at any time and if it was, it was certain to be quick and deadly. But there are supposed to be long periods of buildup where this doesn't happen.

Its possible, its really more on focusing more on story, whether it is backstory or present. Make it suspenseful and build the tension is what I believe LiamG is getting at. As he mentions when you watch these particular types of westerns, they keep the audience on edge, with short outbursts to keep the viewers engaged so there never really fully satisfied as they always want more. This is important as this is what will make a good film, a great film.

Otherwise personally for me, I enjoyed it. I liked the subtle setting of the set design. More of my kind of style. I enjoyed the confusing use of the rapid cutting, again it was confusing in some parts. But for some reason I liked it.
I kind of feel inspired to create a short brick film western watching this. Because I realize this genre in brick films is underrated, yet it holds a lot of potential.

Good job LegoStudiosP.

Sincerely,
Divine.

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Re: The Five of the Pit (Western)

First of all, well, thanks for reviving this film's topic, and for being so detailed. I agree with what both of you and LiamG said in many instances. I'd like to explain some "directorial choices" I made on the technical side.

Divine wrote:

Another great point mentioned is the editing. For me personally I rather enjoyed the rapid cutting but as LiamG mentions the ending of rapid cutting seemed rather irrelevent. If you are going to do rapid cutting there needs to be a good reason for it. What is the climax and what was the reason for the rapid cutting towards the end? This for me was confusing, even tho I enjoyed the film.

The reason there's that rapid cutting/editing near the end is because it's a direct reference to soaghetti western duels from Leone films, more precisely the standoff at the end of "The good, the bad and the ugly". If you compare the two you understand what I mean. I see that it didn't give the same emotional impact the original gave, partly because I edited stills, while the original had all sort of micromovements on the faces of the actors, their hands and such, but also because (mostly because of the lenght of my film) at this point the viewer is not particularly linked to the characters involved, plus, the music in the original film could also get a bigger impact than the music I composed. Let's hope in the next one I succeed better. mini/smile

The flashbacks were a little confusing as well, mainly because they were framed and colored exactly as the present in the film. It would have been nice to had some kind of transition of black and white or sepia at least for the viewers to acknowledge it was a flashback. Remember when you write a script, you don't write it for yourself you write it for the viewers. You may know what the characters are thinking, but that doesn't mean we will. Just something to remember for next time.

Point taken. The fact is, that I personally don't like color transitions to make understand that it's a flashback or similars, or better, not in all cases. The reason I stayed unfiltered in this film was because each flashback would end at the exact same shot it started (e.g. dead banker. flashback of the banker and the nordits. Nordist standing over dead banker.). What I do see that flashbacks of this magnitude are too confusing. The fact was that, I wanted to use no words in the film. Hence I thought of doing such conceptual flashbacks.

Otherwise personally for me, I enjoyed it. I liked the subtle setting of the set design. More of my kind of style. I enjoyed the confusing use of the rapid cutting, again it was confusing in some parts. But for some reason I liked it.
I kind of feel inspired to create a short brick film western watching this. Because I realize this genre in brick films is underrated, yet it holds a lot of potential.

I feel deeply honored to see someone being inspired by my work. Be sure to analize the western film genre in its peculiar aspects, and make your own! I want to also add: I have no western lego set. I did everything with other themed pieces and minifig parts. That, to say that having themed things is not neccessary. I'm awaiting your own western film.

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