Topic: The Classic Animation Thread

After the 2015 BiM Awards were over and the after-partydispersed, I returned to IRC and a few of us were discussing classic animation.  I'm all psyched up about the topic so I wanted to start a whole thread for the topic.

RULES:
1) No discussion of CGI movies, shorts, or series, unless the CGI ws used in a way that enhances traditional animation (like Anastasia, Iron Giant, Beauty & the Beast... mostly done in the 1990s).

2) Discussion is for any cartoon, but especially series p to the Millennium (breakoff point is around the era of the original Powerpuff Girls series).

3) Many old cartoons featured racial stereotypes and similar topics of a sensitive nature.  To maintain the family-friendly approach of this forum, it is courteous to put it in a spoiler and alert the reason above it.

I wanted to begin with something I figured out myself and mentioned on IRC: The third Looney Tunes "clips" movie was 1001 Rabbit Tales.  What I found noteworthy about it is that during the years of the original WB animation studios (1929-1969), there were exactly 1001 Warner Bros cartoons produced, excluding Private Snafu and others made specifically for soldiers.

I love classic animation and want to hear anything you have to say about them!

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Re: The Classic Animation Thread

Some of those 1920's cartoons were really creepy. I was watching some Looney toons and it's hard to believe some of those were made for kids.

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Re: The Classic Animation Thread

Technically, not all Looney Tunes shorts were actually made for kids. Think about it, they played in front of adult movies at theatres. Also, a lot of them were propaganda pieces for the war effort and such. A lot of people feel that anything animated should be for kids (and I agree that a majority of it is), but a lot of it is not kid-worthy.

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Re: The Classic Animation Thread

Yeah, like the new, R-rated Batman cartoon. That was something Mr. Rogers made his show for, he said the kids show back then were messed up and the people who made them knew nothing about kids.

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Re: The Classic Animation Thread

Yes, most people who weren't alive in the days of animation studios think that Looney Toons, MGM, Walter Lantz and the rest were geared for children.  With the exception of RCA Studios/Disney, they were made with adults in mind.

Also, there are a lot of references that make little sense today.  For instance:  Daffy Duck storms out of a room, exclaiming that he's leaving.  He re-enters.  The antagonist asks, "You forgot something?"  Daffy replies.  "Ill say!  I forgot: The goernment doesn't want us to do any unnecessary travelling these days!"  He then hoots and jumps around and acts daffy.  (similar joke used several times).

This is a WWII joke.  During the war effort, Americans were asked to conserve fuel usage so that the soldiers' supplies wouldn't run short.  The episode "Falling Hare" featured a gremlin that tormented Bugs Bunny, and it was full of WWII humor, including "You know how it is with these A cards!".  That's a gas rationing reference as well.

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Re: The Classic Animation Thread

During the war, I don't think any animated cartoons were directly aimed at children. They were as much for adults as they were for children. As I think any decent animated show/movie should be even now; Any well written Kids show should be entertaining for adults too. In many cases now, there are more animated shows aimed at just adults now than there ever has been. Even the Simpsons, which is fairly mild is probably more for adults than it is for children.

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Re: The Classic Animation Thread

That's true.  I really was a Simpsons fan for the first seven or eight years, but they ran out of steam and I'm amazed they're even on TV at all.  It's like those daytime shows that never go away!

cartoons of yesteryear were especially for adults.  In fact, many were filled with racial stereotypes that are so inappropriate today, that people feel they need to be banned rather than understood for their cultural significance.

Now movies today are filled with adult humor, but it's a very different type.  Much of it is pop culture references.  In Alladin, for instance, the genie knows Jack Nicholson.  Now Looney Tunes often referenced current stars, but it was because WB universe was supposed to be populated with characters who were celebrities just as any movie star was, and they co-existed with them.  Such was the basis for the Who Framed Roger Rabbit?  Today's pop humor comes across to me as bland.  You may feel differently.

in one Bugs Bunny cartoon (I think it was Hair Raising Hare or Hocus Pocus), He spends the night in a haunted house, and say,s "Whet a nice interesanctum".  The dialogue, vocabulary and writing was always at an adult level.

Fleischer Studios' Betty Boop was definitely made to appeal to adult males (and she was originally a dog! And she danced with Popeye in the very first Popeye cartoon; she wore only a lei on top.)

Last edited by HoldingOurOwn (May 11, 2016 (04:33pm))

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Re: The Classic Animation Thread

HoldingOurOwn wrote:

That's true.  I really was a Simpsons fan for the first seven or eight years, but they ran out of steam and I'm amazed they're even on TV at all.  It's like those daytime shows that never go away!

I agree. I'm only 11 so I didn't watch it on air but the old ones were waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better, there's still a few good ones here and their but as a show in general its just lost its magic mini/no

edit

Yeah I guess I did I kinda over exaggerate it, I loved the movie don't get me wrong and it was only cooler when Spider pig had a cameo! I think HoldingOurOwn's post magnified my dislike for a while and I was hungry. so I apologize for what I sid when I was hangry mini/lol

Last edited by Sir Snorlax (May 23, 2016 (03:03pm))

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Re: The Classic Animation Thread

I can understand preferring the classic series, as they are a lot better, but I still like the Simpsons. I think the show was at it's lowest during the early to mid 00s, but since the movie, I think it's become increasingly better. Has it seen it's hay day? YES. Do I still like it? Well, yeah. The Simpsons has been around for my entire life and I feel like it was a big part of my childhood. It's always been on and I don't think TV would be quite the same without it.

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Re: The Classic Animation Thread

Don't get me wrong: I'm not anti-Simpsons.  I just think its run its course and should be ended peacefully, the way King of the Hill was.  I actually miss the series, thikning it still had life in it when it ended.  Very early in the Simpsons' run, it was moved to Thursday in the same time slot as NBC's "The Cosby Show".  (this topic is not about his scandal, that will divert the discussion).  No one touched the show until Fox made this bold move.  Soon afterward, Cosby's ratings sank and the show ended up being cancelled after a while.

Once the announcement was made, Simpsons did a blurb poking fun at the cancellation.  Bart & Homer were watching the last episode or something and Bart asks Homer, "Why did they end the show?"  Homer said something the likes of, "It was something about not leaving it continue until they run out of ideas and the quality deteriorates."  Bart, replied: "If I had a show, I'd stay on the air until I ran it to the ground!"  and Homer agreed.  There was a tribute image to the Cosby show.

I only saw this once.  I can't even remember if that scene was on the DVDs.  I searched the internet just now for the clip but it's really hard to find.  You can find it here, and my memory is pretty close to what actually happened.

http://www.wimp.com/this-rare-1992-simp … -on-going/

I think of this clip often when I watch the Simpsons.  But there were a few good episodes that were more recent.

Speaking of classic Prime Time cartoons, who else loves TV's first prime-time cartoon, The Flintstones?  Since they brought Scooby Doo to Lego, wouldn't it be nice if Fred and Wilma were made into Lego?  And the Flint Mobile (which it is being called in retro-canon)?

Last edited by HoldingOurOwn (May 24, 2016 (11:54am))

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Re: The Classic Animation Thread

The 2016 BiM Competition: Sight and Sound is now on.
Here's some small information about classic animation to tie in with the contest theme.

To quote sections of Wikipedia:

  • Disney understood from early on that synchronized sound was the future of film.

  • It has received wide critical acclaim, not only for introducing one of the world's most popular cartoon characters, but for its technical innovation

Hopefully this artefact is able draw some more inspirations for your entry (if you are considering to do one) as it was what pretty much established Disney which also lead to other fantastic classics such as Silly Symphonies.

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Re: The Classic Animation Thread

this was very helpful.
Trivia fact: did you know that disney ruined the public domain system so that they could keep the rights to there films for longer?
Well now you do * cheesy outro music

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Re: The Classic Animation Thread

Much of Disney's technical innovation was actually stolen from the Fleischer brothers.  Rotoscoping, for instance.

But Walter Lantz stole Oswald The Lucky Rabbit from Disney and began animating it for Universal.

More on the Fleischer Studios: Everyone knows that Snow White and th Seven Dwarfs is the first animated movie.  The second is Fleischers' "Gulliver's Travels".

Also, Betty Boop was originally a dog, and she appeared (as a human) in the first Popeye cartoon: "Popeye the Sailor".  Betty Boop was topless (except for a lei) and Popeye gets right up on the stage and dances with her... uninvited... IN FRONT OF OLIVE OYL!  I meantioned this Fleisher fact earlier, but I also must add that the scene has nothing to do with the plot!

Popeye was also the hero in many World War II cartoons that, like most WWII cartoons of all animation studios, are banned from TV.  One of the more well-known Popeye cartoons, "Your A Sap, Mr. Jap", is filled with ethnic stereotypes that some in modern audiences wouldn't be able to handle, even in a historical context.  And so, instead of learning from history, it's kept from the public.

Disney/RKO Pictures had it's share (like "Der Fuhrer's Face" with Donald Duck), as did Warner Bros (like "Hare Meets Herr", where Bugs Bunny antagonizes a German soldier, whom he encounters after making a wrong turn in Albuquerque).

Disney had ethnic stereotypes outside the war theater.  "Sympahny Time" had an Italian stereotype: a music critic named Mr. Macaroni.  I'm half Italian (pardon my French name), and I love the character, as I do the Italian chef who wanted to cook Bugs Bunny, and Mario & Luigi. 

Speaking of Sight and Sound: In the IRC chat the other day, I suggested watching the 1963 Warner Brothers Cartoon "Now Hear This".  It's notable because the entire soundtrack is composed of sounds from the WB/Seven Arts sound effects library.  It is obscure on the internet, but it can be seen in the Looney Tunes Golden Collection, Volume 3 DVD box set.  And no, you can't borrow mine.

Another one that's more visually-inspired is THE LINE AND THE DOT, which Chuck Jones directed for MGM's animation studio.  It seems to be Flatland inspired. 

And totally unrealted, just for some laughs, enjoy THE CAT THAT HATED PEOPLE, one of my all-time favorite golden age cartoons.  Directed by Tex Avery (my favorite director), and released under MGM, it's a must-watch!

Last edited by HoldingOurOwn (June 2, 2016 (07:12pm))

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Re: The Classic Animation Thread

I never really found what's appealing with modern cartoons.

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Re: The Classic Animation Thread

What do you like about the classics?

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Re: The Classic Animation Thread

HoldingOurOwn wrote:

What do you like about the classics?

The humor and the beautiful animation. mini/smile

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Re: The Classic Animation Thread

Modern cartoons have beautiful animation too, you know. mini/wink

Last edited by Mr Vertigo (July 20, 2016 (11:17am))

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Re: The Classic Animation Thread

Mr Vertigo wrote:

Modern cartoons have beautiful animation too, you know. mini/wink

Ok then mini/rolleyes

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Re: The Classic Animation Thread

Yeah, I'll vouch for Vertigo's point completely. Disney has been putting out some of their best animation in years with their recent series of Mickey Mouse cartoons. There is and will always be great animation, you just might not always see it.

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Re: The Classic Animation Thread

Carrotzy wrote:
Mr Vertigo wrote:

Modern cartoons have beautiful animation too, you know. mini/wink

Ok then mini/rolleyes

Well, you could roll your eyes dismissively at the notion that contemporary animation can be beautiful... or you could take the more interesting route, expend the effort to look further into the extraordinary amount of animation floating around on the internet, and make an educated decision. I won't go so far as to say animation produced today is better in general than "classic animation"- I don't even know that I think that; I prefer to compare works on their own merits instead of trying to group things into eras. But if you can't find any appeal given how much work is out there now, it's difficult to believe you're trying very hard.

Brushing off people who are trying to have a friendly conversation with you is kind of rude either way.