Bricks in Motion
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The Animation Challenge is a well-loved thread that has been bloated and poorly-managed for a while now. It was a shadow of its former self and we need to change that. This thread is for discussion how you'd like to see a NEW animation challenge thread be handled.
Please note that not all suggestions can be used. This is attempt to get the community involved so we can find a solution that is satisfactory to most people.
I've already said my piece on this. If we're closing the Animation Challenge thread, then I really think that's it. I mean, it was a simple concept that worked for a while, and it's stopped working. I honestly don't think we can replicate its success without making the new challenge too regulation-bound. If there are too many rules, that will kill it instantly.
I think the animation challenge thread is important and I'm glad to see that we're trying to restore it.
One idea I had in mind was to do something similar to the 11 Second Club where there is not a specific theme, per-say, but rather a bit of dialogue that the animator has to interpret and turn into their own scene. Also, I think that the previous challenge themes were too narrow and perhaps it might be more helpful to pick a more broad theme such as "love," for example.
After a lengthy discussion in the chat, I have come to this personal opinion on how the challenges should be operated:
A new category should be opened in the forum for the Animation Challenge
There would be 2 hosts. These hosts are responsible community members. (This way, one person does not have to host every single week)
Every Two weeks a new challenge thread would be created. Each challenge would last for two weeks
Entries must not be longer than 45 seconds (we could do 30 seconds, I suppose, but I like that extra 15 seconds). This encourages creativity. But of course, this limits people making longer films based on the challenge. Also, as Jampot said, more rules kills the topic.
Community members post their entries to the thread, along with a suggestion of the next challenge's theme. People are encouraged to post their ideas early, though, so the poll can go up and people can vote on the ideas (see below)
A poll is created 1 week into the challenge, containing ideas. People vote on the ideas.
A winner for that challenge is chosen at the end of two weeks
The winner's idea will be chosen as the next challenge's theme. If their idea is not suitable for a challenge, then the host can choose a topic similar to it instead.
The second host creates the next topic
Repeat process
Last edited by rioforce (February 22, 2015 (11:40am))
I agree with everything that rioforce said apart from:
A poll is created 1 week into the challenge, containing ideas. People vote on the ideas.
I think that the winner of the contest should choose the next challenge. That way, there's a bit more incentive to the entire thing, and, gives the winner a bit more bragging rights. Of course, there would be some rules and limitations to what can be chosen as the theme of the next challenge... (i.e. No excessive violence, swearing, or sexual content)
I never really took interest in the old Animation Challenge, but, with a few updates and rules like this, I'd certainly be a regular! 
Interesting, although I'd throw out the time limit. Many of the best challenge entries are those that try to integrate it into a bigger, better film. This may encourage folks to fling something together last-second rather than carefully craft a decent entry.
I assume the hosts are permanent, which would really help the organization, but finding people to commit would be rough.
The polls and new topics sound like there'd be a lot of unnecessary topic creation, though that wouldn't be as big of a deal if it were in it's own category.
Otherwise, it sounds like it could work. That's certainly a great idea.
Edit: Oh, and yes, the winner should pick, or at least have an extra say in the next challenge. Picking and running the next challenge was one of the main reasons I wanted to win. It was just so much fun, and gave a bigger sense of winning and accomplishment.
Having the winner pick is a bad idea. It's absolutely unreliable and there were countless times when the challenge was delayed for days or even weeks when people waited for the winner to pick, or it was decided who should pick next.
Recycle/Rehash/Reintroduce the themes already used.
Having the winner pick is a bad idea. It's absolutely unreliable and there were countless times when the challenge was delayed for days or even weeks when people waited for the winner to pick, or it was decided who should pick next.
Unfortunately, that's always been one of the main motivations for people to enter the challenge. The 'satisfaction of winning' gets old extremely quickly, while being able to pick the next challenge is fun. Not to mention it's fun seeing how other people interpret your theme.
We then come back into the problem of who chooses the challenge, and I think we run the risk of a select few having too much control over what should be a fun and inclusive challenge. The winner should choose the next challenge.
Recycle/Rehash/Reintroduce the themes already used.
This could work, though I would say let's not only reuse old challenges.
I'm all for just keeping the original thread and streamlining it a little more; maybe having a mod regularly check the thread to keep it on track, to formalise FancyPants' first post, but ultimately do little more.
I'll keep the current Animation Challenge topic open for now but it will remain unstickied. It will need to withstand the rise and fall of other topics, like every other topic in the forum.
But it should be closed and replaced when a new system is determined.
I wasn't aware that anything had gone amiss with the animation challenge. I used to be really into it, but in recent times I've been so absorbed with big projects that I hadn't been following it very much for some time.
I would hate for it to go away entirely, though. I was really into it at one point in time. The Animation Challenge helped me became a better animator. And were it not for the Challenge, I would have never thought up Riigo-Faloo. It's a wonderful thing for younger animators to learn stuff.
I really think that challenges should be recycled. After all, only a certain number of people pop up for every challenge, thus, even if it's been done before, it's most likely that the members entering the challenge will be ones who didn't enter the original ones from years back.
Perhaps to quell the issue of some champions taking a bit of time to think of the next challenge, there could instead be a small time limit for them each time (Something like two days perhaps) And if they have not thought of something in that time, then perhaps it could be up for grabs for whoever can think of a theme quick enough and post it. Just an idea, not sure how it would work.
The animation challenge, while it had its faults, was a source of inspiration and guidance for those starting out with this wonderful hobby we call brickfilming. So, here are my thoughts on this matter.......
#1: I think that, as mentioned before, if the animation challenge is to return there needs to at least be one person dedicated to over see it. Perhaps even a moderator assigned specifically for the thread. I don't think the winner should have the final say so on the next challenge. So instead.....
#2: As an incentive to win, give out badges to the winners that would go on their profile. Similar to what Eurobricks does for the winners with its challenges.
#3: Make it to where an old challenge can only be reused after 6 months or so of the last time it was picked. That way newer members will be able to at least have some chance to participate in the challenge if they missed it the time before and (if you were to use my idea of badges) have a chance to get the badge for that challenge as well.
#4 Finally, not allow the winner of the previous challenge to participate in the following challenge. This way you avoid the risk of having the same person win every time.
I like Squid's idea, of allowing the winner to pick the challenge (but not host the challenge), and if they don't pick a new challenge, then the community votes. Unfortunately, this creates more time for one challenge to last. I think that we need 2 weeks for animation, so people can create quality animation. School gets in the way, along with work, and lots of other things, so one week wouldn't be enough. If we then allowed another week to pass with just trying to pick the next challenge, then it would be 3 weeks just for one challenge, which is way too much.
A solution for this would be everyone suggests a topic as they submit their video, and instead of doing a poll, the challenge that the winner suggested wins (unless it's impractical and just wouldn't work as a challenge, then the host would choose a better one that is similar to it). That way, the winner still has the satisfaction of winning and picking the next topic. And there would be no delay, because the topic would be suggested as the video was submitted.
@Galactic:
Badges are not a good idea. The forum isn't set up for badges anyway. But besides that, (I'm quoting Pritchard here) "It becomes a race for badges, for glory, not for the fun and learning." Sure, it's fun to win, but just going for the reward is not the right thing.
I dislike the idea of restricting the previous winner from entering. Don't punish them because they won, encourage other animators to get better and win. The judge should pick the best animation in that challenge, and if it happens to be the same person twice, then that's just the way it is. Obviously, if they keep winning and there are other good animators participating, then it might be a bit suspicious, but that's why there must be responsible and active community members being the hosts for the challenges.
I think the Animation Challenge is good as a prompt, but the idea of having winners seems pointless to me. If it were something like the 11 Second Club, where the best entry got a professional critique, then that would make a winner necessary.
Actually, I would like to see that happen here. I honestly don't feel like there's much incentive or drive to improve ones' skills on this site; the people who do are already pretty self-driven. Someone posts a film, and generally people either don't comment on it, because it's not a very good film, or if it is a good film, all anyone talks about is how good it is — and here I'll note that there are exceptions, but not enough.
So before I spend the next hour trying to put together a post elaborating on that point, I'll just say this: if the animation challenge continues (in a different form), have the reward be a critique. And lets stop focusing solely on things that you'll probably never animate. Instead, take something normal, even boring, and do something different with it. I never get enough of MisterMulluc's Major Malfunction simply because of the way the characters move, like how the top hat on the third man is rarely still as he walks. It's little details like that that makes me love animation. Animation isn't simply about making an inanimate object move; it's about making it come alive.
[/endrant]
P.S. Since I just looked at the Animation Challenge thread again and found that there were actually challenges like "interesting/unique walk cycles," let me propose this idea. Animate situations, not actions (like WillowTree suggested, but not always with dialog). How does the character react? Does he react? Cartoony or serious? So on. Make us believe this character is thinking and alive.
Last edited by Littlebrick (February 20, 2015 (03:11pm))
Nathan Wells wrote:Having the winner pick is a bad idea. It's absolutely unreliable and there were countless times when the challenge was delayed for days or even weeks when people waited for the winner to pick, or it was decided who should pick next.
Unfortunately, that's always been one of the main motivations for people to enter the challenge. The 'satisfaction of winning' gets old extremely quickly, while being able to pick the next challenge is fun. Not to mention it's fun seeing how other people interpret your theme.
We then come back into the problem of who chooses the challenge, and I think we run the risk of a select few having too much control over what should be a fun and inclusive challenge. The winner should choose the next challenge.
I totally agree that is the main reason I mostly entered, because being able to choose the next challenge was a big thing, a really big thing. And it was a really fun thing being a part of a bigger contest. And the thought of anybody being able to join and getting that chance to choose the next challenge was also big. I really think the main reason the animation challenge has lasted all these years, is because it wasn't an exclusive challenge that one or two people ran but a much bigger thing that everybody could be a part of. It seems like the forum is going into a power struggle type of thing where people want to run stuff. I totally understand the mods taking authority and responsibility, but everybody can't be in control. I don't really understand why we want to rethink it and not just reboot it. Why don't we just start a new Animation challenge. And use the other ideas to make a totally new Challenge if we want to do something different?
The Animation Challenge is amazing and should not be killed off. If you like it or not, it's still a part of forum history, and helped many people become better animators.
My idea is that the winner shouldn't get to choose the challenge, instead, the community votes on it.
To make people want to enter/make the winner feel special, we should add a "trophy" system. This would work similar to the rep system back in 2011, maybe this could get new people to try the challenge.
Also, old challenges should be "recycled", but there has to be a limit of how many times it is re-used.
We've discussed rep/trophy systems before, and opinions were mixed. While they could end up being divisive, I think our conclusion was that they'd come after/with the sitr redesign, when that happens.
Ah, the Animation Challenge. I used to enter that a few times, but (and I had stated this before, in the thread itself, multiple times in the past) because of a busy school year for many, a lot of members probably wouldn't have the time or resources to constantly be making entries every time another challenge rolled around. And that was the reason why there weren't many entries coming in, and why the deadline was constantly being extended. I told the people in the forums that it wasn't really a good idea to hold the challenge during this time, but they continued on, and thus came the dying thread known as The Animation Challenge.
I personally think that it'd be fair to unsticky the thread, instead of closing it, so as to let it grow less and less active and let it die on its own, buried beneath the newer, more active threads in that will come and go. Revamping the Animation Challenge at a later time in another place might be a good idea too.
Last edited by Mickey (February 21, 2015 (05:25pm))
perhaps, the 'reward' could just be it getting featured on the BiM facebook page.....
I think the word challenge implies competition where it doesn't need to be. The "challenge" is for the animator to better their technique within the constraints of time and theme.
I have seen plenty of entries for the animation challenge tagged with: "this is what I threw together at the last minute." This disappoints me. In the interest of advancing and learning from the experience time and effort should play a major role. I like the idea mentioned above of having two weeks/ two weekends per challenge which should promote quality.
I thought it might be nice, at one time long ago, to supplement the resources section of this website with animations made by the community. A lot of people come here looking for ideas and help. If someone comes looking for an ocean wave technique it would be nice to point them to the "Indexed and Easily Searchable Animation Challenge Page."
Look Bobby-there are three very good techniques listed under ocean/waves here.(circa February 2017)
This is where the winners would come in. Each challenge would be like a mini Olympics to put your best foot forward and represent for the community. There would be no need for trophies or badges. Whoever wins gets their video posted to the resources section forever and writes a technical blurb about how said effect was achieved. The Animation Challenge thread right now only lists the winners in the first post. Good luck finding another animation quickly that had a good idea in it.
I know this idea was a long shot when I first thought about it and in most cases it still is. I thought I would post it here to show there might be other solutions or workarounds for the Animation Challenge thread.
Have fun.
Jared
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