Topic: Using backgrounds as Layers over Greenscreen is it possible?

Hi guys,

So it's been playing my mind these last few days.

Using backgrounds as layers instead of using Green-screen.

Is it possible? I really do believe it is, but want to know more about it. I understand importing images/backgrounds without creating it as a layer overlays the film/original clip but what if it was a layer would it actually not overlap the film and be positioned behind it as a background?

Otherwise whats the best way to do it?

Any answers would be really appreciated.

Sincerely,
Divine.

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Re: Using backgrounds as Layers over Greenscreen is it possible?

I'm not sure if I understand what you mean, but I'll give you the ways to do what I think you might mean with a green screen.

For instance, you wanted to project a screen on a wall and the screen needs to be behind the character (who is on front of the screen), you need a layer behind the minifigure and in front of the screen. You have a couple of ways to go:

1. You film the stuff for the projector screen. You film the wall the minifig is standing in front of. You film your minifig in front of a green screen, chroma key it out so that only the minifig is there. You layer the clips in this order: Wall, Screen Content, Minifig. This is probably the worst way to do it.

2. You put a piece of green, blue, or red paper or something on a wall that has your minifigure standing on front of it. You chroma key the screen, place your screen content footage on a layer behind the main one, and it will be in the screen. This is the best way to go.

Obviously, I only explained how to chroma key, because I really don't understand the question. So if this doesn't help any, just reply and explain it again so I can figure out what you are talking about. mini/wink

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Re: Using backgrounds as Layers over Greenscreen is it possible?

Again, I'd love to help, but I'm afraid the question isn't clear. Do you mean actual backdrops? My recommendations for that would be A4 card, stuck onto a cardboard background. If your image goes across two sheets, try to obscure the join as much as possible in the set itself, whether it's behind a prop or you reprint that area on a sheet of paper to make it look smoother.

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Re: Using backgrounds as Layers over Greenscreen is it possible?

Hey Rioforce and Jampot.

Firstly RioForce thank you for comment in regards to Chroma Keying I will deffs try to work with it and ask you some questions regarding it if you guys arn't able to help me with my question I will now try to explain it better.

Jampot btw what is Backdrops? I read your comment but don't understand whats it for?

Now onto the question, sorry you guys didn't understand so I'll try to make it clearer.

Now to help make this clearer I am going to provide an image to better help the situation.

Now if you look at the image, or concentrate at the background behind the clones. (The background being presented and placed in post).
http://3.t.imgbox.com/Ak18dq4P.jpg

Now instead of greenscreen. Would it possible to get a picture to use as a background in your brickfilm (Not just for a screen but the whole background of what the camera captures on screen), and instead of greenscreening/chroma keying to create a layer for just the background image and place it behind the minifig and make it look as if it's the actual background of where the minifig is. Whether it's a jungle or in space for that matter. Just as the picture above is displaying with the background.

If so how do I do the layers and how do I add them in? What should the new layer be in AE? Is it a solid?

Thanks guys,

Sincerely,
Divine.

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Re: Using backgrounds as Layers over Greenscreen is it possible?

I'm sorry Divine, but I still don't understand what you mean, and I can't make 'backdrop' any clearer unless I give you the dictionary definition ("a painted cloth hung at the back of a theatre stage as part of the scenery", though for brickfilming it would be a piece of card).

What you might be referring to is rotoscoping: in AE, removing the background from the footage you've shot and adding something new, essentially photoshopping every frame to cut around the foreground. It's painstaking work and I would not recommend doing it - I spent 3 weeks working at a VFX studio and they had me roto'ing the whole time. It was mind-numbingly painful.

If you're going to go to great effort, use a greenscreen or print out a backdrop. It's far easier than other, complex emthods.

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Re: Using backgrounds as Layers over Greenscreen is it possible?

jampot wrote:

I'm sorry Divine, but I still don't understand what you mean

divine wrote:

Would it possible to get a picture to use as a background in your brickfilm (Not just for a screen but the whole background of what the camera captures on screen)

I understand what you mean by backdrop giving me the definition helped out with that. It's just I've never heard of it or really ever had experience with it. I'll have to make use of it sometime.

It's something similiar to rotoscoping, but I'm not actually referring to masking the minifigs and removing all the background not one bit. That is too much effort and un-needed excessive amount of work. I'm just talking simply putting in a background image, and if its possible to create a new layer to place behind the minifig so the background isn't on the minifig that's it and if its possible how can I achieve this. I'm sorry I don't know if I can be any more precise on this topic. But any kind of advice or help is appreciated.

Also Rioforce,

Thank you for the greenscreen info, with the chroma keying once that's done what would I have to do after that would there be anything else? Also does the layer have to be a solid for a background or something else? Would love to know.

Sincerely,
Divine.

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Re: Using backgrounds as Layers over Greenscreen is it possible?

You will need a way to make transparent the parts of the screen that you want to replace with a backdrop.

Chroma keying itself already a layering technique. The green screen is used to isolate whatever is on the foreground (in your  example, the minifigs and ground). The "background" (that is, a green screen or whatever you want to replace) is made transparent, and the actual background layer (a backdrop) becomes visible.

You don't completely require an actual green screen or single colour background to do this; you can also manually "cut out" the foreground. This will require a lot of time, however, and the use of chroma keying greatly reduces the time you spend working on it.

There's also other ways to put in a background even during production. You could place a monitor behind your set and put the background image on there, or you could even print out the background image and place it behind whatever foreground you have.

Re: Using backgrounds as Layers over Greenscreen is it possible?

Hey BertL,

Thanks for commenting and giving some great feedback.

The only problem is, I don't know how to create the chroma key effect or put the essential layering.

How do you make the things you want transparent?

Are you able to make a brief stepping guide that I can work from? I'm familiar with where the things are just not doing them. If you can just provide some steps I'm sure I'll be fine with the rest.

Also is their a difference between blue green and green screen? What is it? Also is there such thing as red screen?

Sincerely,
Divine.

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Re: Using backgrounds as Layers over Greenscreen is it possible?

The specific steps you need to go through to do chroma keying really depends on the software you use, but I'll try to give a brief overview of what you generally need to do.

Most video and image editors have tools to select areas of the image/video by colour. You can then make this selection transparent. All you need to do then is put in your backdrop as the background layer and then you're set! Here's a tutorial for GIMP, but the same principles can be applied to any image/video editor.

As for the colour, you can use pretty much any colour. There's two important things to keep in mind, though. First, it needs to be lit evenly and well so you don't have too much trouble selecting the coloured regions. Second, it shouldn't be too close to the colours of whatever is in the foreground, so no green background with a green minifig, or you'll get this weird effect. Jay Silver's brickfilm Rise of the Empire makes extensive use of chroma keying, and he used all sorts of colours, from blue and green to red and pink.

Re: Using backgrounds as Layers over Greenscreen is it possible?

Hey BertL,

Thanks for getting back to me.

I normally use SV for video editing, and AE for anything else.

If I used gimp would I have to do this for every frame? Or is it really just the one frame and then extending it all out?

I think I understand perfectly what your saying in regards as to adding a background layer.

bertl wrote:

As for the colour, you can use pretty much any colour. There's two important things to keep in mind, though. First, it needs to be lit evenly and well so you don't have too much trouble selecting the coloured regions. Second, it shouldn't be too close to the colours of whatever is in the foreground, so no green background with a green minifig

I really didn't know you could use any color that's great to keep in mind, I just wonder why people all the time use green screen for news editing and most professional filming. The evenly lit part, I did notice this the hard way, whats the best way to achieve lighting the whole green backdrop evenly? Especially at night. I use two lamps but still don't seem to get properly evened out.
So if the minifig was green hypothetically speaking, you could use a red background and it'd seem produce the same effect as green screening? That weird effect made me laugh mini/tongue

bertl wrote:

Jay Silver's brickfilm Rise of the Empire makes extensive use of chroma keying, and he used all sorts of colours, from blue and green to red and pink.

I actually just watched it for the first time your right pretty much throughout it is chroma keyed backgrounds. It was great!

Thanks for the great tips, BertL. Appreciate your time responding.

Sincerely,
Divine.

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Re: Using backgrounds as Layers over Greenscreen is it possible?

No problem, Divine.

Sony Vegas actually has a couple of filters that make it pretty easy to chroma key your video footage. There's an excellent tutorial on how to do that here:

http://www.moonpro.us/chroma.htm

The tutorial focuses on a green screen, but you can do it with pretty much any colour you want. If you have a green-shirted minifig, going with a red screen is a pretty viable option: then you will be filtering out the red background instead of the green one.

As for the lighting, I am not too sure, but the consensus seems to be to place two diffused lights onto just the green screen, like this:

http://www.louish.com/v11/images/v11/bl … igure3.gif

Hope this helps you out!

Re: Using backgrounds as Layers over Greenscreen is it possible?

Thanks very much BertL!

This is perfect! I will be going over the tutorial hopefully later today, and will be attempting this I will post my results when it's done (hopefully today or tomorrow)

BERTL wrote:

As for the lighting, I am not too sure, but the consensus seems to be to place two diffused lights onto just the green screen, like this:
http://www.louish.com/v11/images/v11/bl … igure3.gif

You nailed it perfectly with this picture, now I realize what I was doing wrong. My main problem was even though I was using 2 lights, I was only focusing one diffused light from the side and the other one on the minifigs.

This will help a lot! Thanks bud!

Sincerely,
Divine.

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