Topic: CGI v. Stop Motion

I have been working diligently on creating a good Computer Generated Minifigure Rig. Earlier today I finally got it to an animate-able state. I proudly showed my sister and got a reaction that I was not expecting.

My sister said that she didn't like the Idea of creating Brickfilms completely on the computer because it seemed like I was being lazy not creating real Brickfilms.
while while she is probably partially right mini/XD I had never though about this before. I figured I would ask some people who actually Brickfilm to get their opinion.
that being said I have listed some pros and Cons about using CGI

PROS:

Can go back and undo Mistakes
Don't need to Mask
Don't have to worry about light Flickers this is the biggest thing that attracted me to CGI
Can easily add light flares and other cool effects
IT is Easier to lip sync
you Have infinite Legos

CONS:
You have to model most everything yourself
you still have to animate and what is easy in the real world is sometimes tricky on the computer
you have to Render it out mini/madhead



that's all I have to say about that. I'm curious to see you guy's opinions on this subject.
Sorry I rambled on so long though mini/confused

Re: CGI v. Stop Motion

This was slightly off topic so I didn't have it in the original post.

My New Minifigure Rig is inspired by the New Lego Movie coming out. I have purposely limited the movement so it will be pretty much like animating a real Lego Figure, I also intend to take it a step further by animating frame by frame like a normal stop motion.

so would my method of Computer Generated Brickfilming (CGB? mini/shifty ) be different from other forms of computer Brickfilms?

Re: CGI v. Stop Motion

From my site's Guide Section:

There are times when the art of stop-motion animation and computer animation are debated on, which one is better, which one is easier, which one is worth pursuing. I'm here to say: it depends on you.

Stop-motion animation is an old animation technique while computer animation is a booming industry. Each has their strengths and weaknesses. Speaking in terms of popularity, time, and cost of usage, stop-motion animation is not a worthy investment when computer animation can be done much faster and can accomplish visuals beyond the capabilities of stop-motion. But that depends on what you're trying to accomplish.

For those who prefer to feel and manipulate things physically in their hands, they should consider stop-motion animation. It requires a lot of patience and repetitive motion when it comes to stop-motion animation and it's a very tedious process. However, depending on your medium, it may take less time than computer animation to create. Stop-motion gives artists the advantage of having a tangible object to manipulate. If one usings real life objects like LEGO minifigurines, the characters and sets can easily be made. If one usings modelling clay, then sculpting and creating characters and sets, alone, may take as long as creating them on computer.

The biggest advantage of computer animation is that the artist is not limited to what they can create. Artists can create vast landscapes and sceneries and only taking up a few Megabytes of hard drive space to do it. Computer animators can create an army of characters with a few keystrokes and mouse clicks (after they've created the character, that is). The drawback to computer animation depends on the artist's hardware. Given a character, a scene and a camera's position and view, stop-motion animators can take less than a minute to manipulate a character and capture that frame. Given the same character, scene and camera positiona and view, computer animators may have to wait hours to render the same frame.

Take away the cost and popularity, the difference between stop-motion animation and computer animation is the medium and the sequence of the animation process. Both have their characters and sets made before animating. Both have their lights and cameras positioned and tweaked before animating. Computer animation has the animator create the character's sequence of movement first, then have the computer render the final sequence of images. Stop-motion animators have to plan the sequence of movements ahead and the final images are created with each movement of the character.

Essentially, from start to finish, both approaches require some work to complete.

https://i.imgur.com/4b9NnS3.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/GUIl0qk.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/ox64uld.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/v3iyhE5.png

Re: CGI v. Stop Motion

I don't call them "brickfilms" when they're CGI.

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"None practice tolerance less frequently than those who most loudly preach it."

Re: CGI v. Stop Motion

The idea that CG animation is quick and easy is a common misconception of the animation lay-folk. Both forms take a lot of work. I personally enjoy both computer and stop-motion animation; I'd get into computer animation if my computer could handle it graphically, but alas, it cannot. CGI LEGO films are certainly a grey area, and I'd like to precede the following opinion with this statement: As I said above, I'm a fan of both types on animation, all forms of animation really, and I by no means intend to knock on those who choose the CG route. Stop motion is my favorite form of animation because there is a certain magic in the way that a physical and existing, but inanimate object is given life and a personality through the animation; it's a hard thing to explain, but I'm sure some people on this site know what I'm talking about, I hope. That being said, here's my opinion on the topic. I hesitate to call CG animated LEGO films "brickfilms", because to me the biggest part of what a brickfilm is is the magic of seeing the toys that I played with as a child coming to life, expressing emotion, and making mistakes; it's the same reason I love all stop motion with the added bonus of childhood nostalgia. I've always considered stop motion to be part of the definition of a brickfilm. Although I have to say, props to you for building a rig that's stiff, like the ones used in the LEGO movie; for me it definitely pushes you closer to a brickfilm if the models behave just like actual minifigures. I'm interested to see how that turns out. mini/smile

Re: CGI v. Stop Motion

It depends on your definition of what a brickfilm is, to completely understand it; Technically, a 'Brickfilm" is a pretty vague definition of something more commonly known as a "LEGO Movie." (And some will go to argue that Brickfilms don't necessarily need just Lego; Mega Blocks and other brands are acceptable too, some say. But, I digress) To make a "Brickfilm," bricks (LEGO) are needed.

And, thus, my point. - If drawing Lego-like figures on paper, and making an animation through the traditional cell-animation technique, would not be considered a "Brickfilm," then something wholly animated on a computer shouldn't either.

However! As CGI is a (hmm, for lack of a better word) "tool" that is becoming more and more popular in the film industry, then it's use in a Brickfilm would not be looked down upon. And, as a "video" such as Toy Story is seen as a true "film," then animating a Brickfilm with CGI would seem more acceptable.

It all just depends on what you personally think, however, I'd argue AGAINST CGI Brickfilms with this: Brickfilms can't legally be sold (Unless you somehow got a contract with the LEGO Company), so, why would you make a CG film if it can't be legally "shown" elsewhere? I mean, most of us Brickfilmers just do this for fun, but, if we had set locations and actual actors in person (things that can be made in the computer), We'd be making actual films, NOT Brickfilms - Because if we have the money and effort, most people would rather put that to an actual job (either pitching the Idea to LEGO, or using the funds and material to make an actual Blockbuster movie) rather then a hobby.

https://i.imgur.com/Z8VtGae.png

Re: CGI v. Stop Motion

HoldingOurOwn wrote:

I don't call them "brickfilms" when they're CGI.

They're still bricks, just digital bricks.


As others have stated, they both have their pros and cons. But I will say that CGI takes a good knowledge of math (From geometry to algebra).

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Re: CGI v. Stop Motion

I'm not going to debate the merits of one medium or another or even question the issue of CGI lego films being brickfilms but here's something:
Why would you do that?
Like, in CGI you have the potential to create infinite characters. Why do you choose to attempt to render a plastic minifigure when there is so much more potential in character design?
I'm not against that or anything, I want to know this honestly. And I have never used CGI before so I wouldn't have any idea if it is easier to make minifigs in programs or something.

Re: CGI v. Stop Motion

I wanted to add my 2 cents despite this being old, but there isn't anything to bump. since this is still at the top of the page :s

Anywho, I hate animated CGI films, Its not a matter of laziness though, I do say sitting on a computer and rendering things, isn't to far from sitting in a chair and taking pictures, but actual stop motion is more creative, AND allows more creativity, If you ever notice when your limited or people are limited on supplies, they tend to bring out more creativity to compensate and you get a feel for it, and admire it.

With CGI you don't have limits and anything you want you make and thats that. It isn't as creative.

And no making CGI isn't a difficult task it just has a learning curve, its only time consuming. In comparison to Stop Motion which is easy to learn but hard to master.


And for nostalgic purposes I being 16 saw those old stop motion cartoons in my days and I just admire the work that went into it far more then some cruddy animated scene. Its all preference really, I seem to tick people off for hating CGI when it leaves the realm of practical use.

Re: CGI v. Stop Motion

Juggernaut Pictures wrote:
HoldingOurOwn wrote:

I don't call them "brickfilms" when they're CGI.

They're still bricks, just digital bricks.


As others have stated, they both have their pros and cons. But I will say that CGI takes a good knowledge of math (From geometry to algebra).

I didn't mean that I'm against CGI bricks.  I just call cgi lego "CGI" (like Empire Strikes Out by TLG, which I LOVE).  However, I'm not a fan of most CGI feature films except for a few, as I far prefer traditional animation.

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"None practice tolerance less frequently than those who most loudly preach it."

Re: CGI v. Stop Motion

Why not both? I like to use stop-motion in the foreground and CGI for the background. E.G.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3727/10629362434_dee5551871_b.jpg
Elrond_000001 by canaanmay, on Flickr

Re: CGI v. Stop Motion

silents429 wrote:

I wanted to add my 2 cents despite this being old, but there isn't anything to bump. since this is still at the top of the page :s

Anywho, I hate animated CGI films, Its not a matter of laziness though, I do say sitting on a computer and rendering things, isn't to far from sitting in a chair and taking pictures, but actual stop motion is more creative, AND allows more creativity, If you ever notice when your limited or people are limited on supplies, they tend to bring out more creativity to compensate and you get a feel for it, and admire it.

With CGI you don't have limits and anything you want you make and thats that. It isn't as creative.

And no making CGI isn't a difficult task it just has a learning curve, its only time consuming. In comparison to Stop Motion which is easy to learn but hard to master.


And for nostalgic purposes I being 16 saw those old stop motion cartoons in my days and I just admire the work that went into it far more then some cruddy animated scene. Its all preference really, I seem to tick people off for hating CGI when it leaves the realm of practical use.

Is this all CGI films or just brick based CGI films?

Re: CGI v. Stop Motion

Willco66 wrote:
silents429 wrote:

I wanted to add my 2 cents despite this being old, but there isn't anything to bump. since this is still at the top of the page :s

Anywho, I hate animated CGI films, Its not a matter of laziness though, I do say sitting on a computer and rendering things, isn't to far from sitting in a chair and taking pictures, but actual stop motion is more creative, AND allows more creativity, If you ever notice when your limited or people are limited on supplies, they tend to bring out more creativity to compensate and you get a feel for it, and admire it.

With CGI you don't have limits and anything you want you make and thats that. It isn't as creative.

And no making CGI isn't a difficult task it just has a learning curve, its only time consuming. In comparison to Stop Motion which is easy to learn but hard to master.


And for nostalgic purposes I being 16 saw those old stop motion cartoons in my days and I just admire the work that went into it far more then some cruddy animated scene. Its all preference really, I seem to tick people off for hating CGI when it leaves the realm of practical use.

Is this all CGI films or just brick based CGI films?

Its all. I can enjoy pure CGI movies like Shrek or something, but thats not stop motion. Its mainly when CGI is used IN stop motion where it irritates me. This isn't just for brickfilms.

Re: CGI v. Stop Motion

I for one love the combination of the two. If the CG looks good, that is.

Re: CGI v. Stop Motion

Take a look at Nick durron's Picturesque. It was mixed, but in such a good way I thought it couldn't have been better!:) I think if you are going to use CGI, don't just use it for one location in your story, and then at another location have ALL legos. You should give it a nice balance. Just check out nick durron's picturesque here: youtube.com/nickdurron

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Re: CGI v. Stop Motion

I use CGI for lnadscapes, camera overviews, and stuff I'm not really able to do properly in stopmotion. Sometimes as backround too, but not always...
I think that filmmakers use a lot of CGI nowadays (E.G. in Inception we get limbo that was 95% CGI), so why shouldn't we brickfilmers do that?
Either ways, I don't like doing animations involving minifigures in CGI, I mean Fully-CGI movies. But thats just me.