Topic: Nikon DSLR Light Flickering

Greetings everyone,

I am in deep muddy problems. Yesterday I sold my Nikon D3100 + 18-55 VRII lens (The DSLR I did most of my projects/videos with) and upgraded to the D5200 + 18-55 VRII lens. My problem is that I am receiving nasty light flickering with the new camera and lens on 90% of the exposure combinations. That problem was easily fixed with the D3100, and I was never stuck on light flicker problems for more than 20 minutes. Right now I have more or less found the most balanced exposure combination, I am at an ISO of 1250, Shutter speed of 1/15, f-11.0, and white balance under "Daylight". And that seems to be the most balanced option in which the light flicker is almost gone or just not noticeable to the eye. I've also noticed that zooming into the set more or less decreases the flickering as-well.

What is the best, most balanced exposure setting for the Nikon D5200? I have 2 LED 40W lamps, one is standing at approximately 45 degrees from the set and the other is on the straight other side of the set. I wear dark clothes during filming, closed curtains in a dark room, everything is sturdy on a tripod.

Another major problem, is that after I change the exposure settings, the first image seems to be 10%-15% more/less bright then the others, and I use Dragon-Frame trial version (testing it) and for real work I use DigiCamControl which does the job perfectly for the frame reviewing. These are my first days of tethered shooting since it's not available on the D3100 options (again, never had these problems with the D3100, without tethered shooting).

If there are any other suggestions from DSLR users that will help solve these demonic problems, please feel free to help. I have 3 major brickfilm projects and a web-series that I've been spending months of work on and can't finish. I will be more than really thankful to the one who would give any useful tips.






---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I still haven't uploaded much serious Brickfilming work on YouTube yet, but feel free to check

YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/COMMANDERFOX31

Re: Nikon DSLR Light Flickering

Can you do a test with your lens half unscrewed? find the zoom setting you need and just half unscrew the lens, this will lock the camera in f/22 or whatever the tightest aperture on your lens is, your level of zoom does not matter. You will need much longer exposures to make the lens work at it's minimum aperture and you will get exclusively deep focused shots, but if the result of the test does not have flicker then you are dealing with aperture or other lens related flicker (maybe the vibration reduction creates it's own flicker to? But if your lens is half unscrewed that shouldn't be able to operate ether)

If the unscrewing works I suggest you buy a few manual vintage Nikkor lenses for your camera, I have a very detailed thread about it here. The old lenses have an aperture ring on the lens it's self so if you do need to leave it half unscrewed you can set the aperture to whatever best suites your project.

Re: Nikon DSLR Light Flickering

Thank you for your tips and suggestions!

Unfortunately, as much as I would like to try this tip, I do not have anything small enough to unscrew the new 18-55 VR II lens, they are barely 2mm each. A really mysterious mystery is that I've had the exact same lens when I used the D3100 and that problem was solved by applying the exposure combination I mentioned earlier and the shots came out fantastically focused, detailed, and lighten. Do you think that the current lens are damaged? I did get them in a bundle kit with the D5200 unlike the D3100 18-55mm VR II lenses that were separately delivered to me in a separate retail box from the factory.

Also, I just tried the longer exposure with the minimum aperture tip you mentioned (without unscrewing the lens) and it gave the worst results. Every image was 20%-30% brighter/darker than the other, the 10 frame animation came out to be a mess. The only exposure that works without any eye-noticeable flicking is f/11, ISO 1K, and shutter speed of 1/13, or the one I've mentioned earlier. But basically, what I've noticed is that you have to "balance" it, if you move one up you have to move the other one down including the ISO, or else it will come out to be an absolute disco-ball mess. It also becomes terrific once the aperture is higher than 14, no matter if it's "balanced" or not.

Re: Nikon DSLR Light Flickering

When I say unscrew the lens, this is what I mean:

1: Depress button
2: Turn lens, as if to remove it but stop half way, lens should stay on the camera, but the camera will not detect a lens being used.

http://i.imgur.com/pje79vR.png

It is likely your camera will give you a warning that you are 'shooting without a lens attached' that means you are doing this correctly.

Re: Nikon DSLR Light Flickering

I see what you meant,

The D5200 showed no warnings for me, it just showed a white screen and no aperture once the lens were completely removed. But you were right, the aperture is at 0.00 (F-29 minimal) and there are no flicks at all. That's pretty disappointing, I have to increase the shutter and ISO a bit too much to get a proper image. Absolute no control over the aperture makes it pretty annoying.

But why did it never happen to me on the previous 18-55 VR II lenses with the D3100? I simply increased the aperture and it showed no flicker.

Is there a way to fix the flicking with the lens attached/clipped?

Re: Nikon DSLR Light Flickering

You are encountering aperture flickering, you can see what is actually happening in this 5000fps video of photographs being taken. Before you take a photo your lens is at f/3.5 so that you get lots of light coming in and the preview is easier to see, but when the shutter is pressed the camera releases the lever holding the aperture at 3.5 and drops it to wherever you set it, however it does not always drop at the same speed so when the image is captured some images have more light then other images.

I do not know a way to fix this 'lighter' preview setting, it happens to be the reason most people prefer old manual Nikon lenses adapted to Canon bodies. However if you do get a Nikon lens with a manual aperture ring you can set the aperture on the lens, you will still need to half unscrew it as the Nikon camera body will open the older lenses up just like they do on the modern counter parts but at least when the lens is 'disconnected' you will still have control of aperture vie the lens.

I recommend picking up a Nikkor 55mm f/3.5 Micro used, I own one and it's a great lens, they run about $70-$85 used on ebay although I have found them cheaper at other places.

Sorry for the bad news mini/sad

Re: Nikon DSLR Light Flickering

Thank you for your suggestions, you've helped a lot.

Atleast you've scripted the problem that I'll be explaining to Nikon Inc. on Monday using customer service. I really believe it is because of the sloppy lenses that I received in the D5200 kit. I will try to either return it and buy them both separately, or call Nikon and tell them to replace the bundle kit ones with separate box lenses, since again, it never happened with the previous retail 18-55 VRIIs, I animated with those lenses for about two years and never saw any noticeable flickering. Plus, it is really weird how there are so many animators out there using the 18-55, but not that many reports/complaints about this specific problem.

I guess until then, I'll have to use your method, which also gives pretty sweet results.


If anyone else has a method/solution, please feel free to reply.

Re: Nikon DSLR Light Flickering

It's quite possible that you have sticky aperture blades which would make the issue much more severe, if some oil or something got on one of the blades during manufacturing it could really make flicker much worse.

Re: Nikon DSLR Light Flickering

I'm beginning to have the same thought too. The lens do have an impressive amount of oil on their frames, and the mechanisms are pretty close to that area. I guess it's just the same old usual kit lens failure that happens in almost every package.

Btw, I also tried to film a scene with the tip you suggested. Everything looks very... different...  mostly everything in the set is in focus and I must ask you if that type of animating looks... realistic enough? Plus, the main figure has unfocused by a tiny bit. I believe it's good for close range scenes, but not for everything.

Also, there are tons of brickfilmers who use DSLRs and saw this topic, but none of them replied. And I don't believe each one and one of them bought the Nikkor 55mm f/3.5 Micro. I am really confident that many use the lens they've received in their kit without having this problem. I think it is a deflect just with my lens.

Re: Nikon DSLR Light Flickering

I have a DSLR, it's just Canon. mini/tongue So I would be of no help.

"Bless you for making this." -Sloth 2016 * on "Chicken Shaped Lighthouse Attacks Police"
http://bricksafe.com/files/harborlightpro/400x100%20BRICKSINMOTON%20PIC%202.jpg
Ephesians 4:29 -"Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers."

Re: Nikon DSLR Light Flickering

Harborlight wrote:

I have a DSLR, it's just Canon. mini/tongue So I would be of no help.

It was never mentioned that Canon users can't help mini/tongue Do you experience the problem with your Canon/Canon lens? Perhaps it is more efficient to return the camera and get a Canon?

Re: Nikon DSLR Light Flickering

I also use a Canon DSLR, I just use it with Nikon lenses, this is the prefered setup of stop motion animators at places like StopMotionAnimation.com as well as animators working on major productions, wither that be something like Robot Chicken, or Boxtrolls.

I do realize that a lot of animators use there kit lens to animate, and many of them have few issues, from what I under stand the more open the aperture is and the longer the shutter speeds are the less of an issue it is. I am just recommending what works the best from the lenses I've used, and I have used FAR MORE lenses then other brickfilmers.

If you can get something to work well for you that is great but modern DSLR lenses (Nikkor or Canon or whatever) all work the same (with a few exceptions here and there) HOWEVER even if you picked up a vintage Nikkor lens that had issues like a sticky aperture it would still work fine for stop motion as the lens does not rely on the camera to set the aperture. While not many have got the 55mm Micro, many of the DSLR users are using vintage lenses with full manual control, lucky for anyone who reads my guide the best vintage option is also one of the cheapest.

I understand that many members can't afford to have a huge lens collection, which is why most folks would be better off buying a webcam then a DSLR. Look at the cost of a DSLR:
Camera - $500+
Wall adapter - $45
Dragonframe - $300
-------------------------
That's $845

If you spend $170 picking a 35mm and 55mm lens you have two solid lenses that will work well, and it bumps the cost up to about $1015, you are looking at 17% of your investment being lenses. I sort of feel for most hobbiests they could vastly improve the quality of their films with a good webcam for around $70 and maybe $200 on lights and $100 on a quality microphone and that leaves you about $645 left to spend on LEGO.

I am not trying to be mean, I am just pointing out that on a whole DSLRs are extremely expensive investments, frequently you will spend (much) more on assessors for the body then the body its self. I hope you are able to find a solution, and even better if it's one covered by warranty, however I will stand by my statement that the 55mm Micro is the best solution.

If you can return the camera and get your money back you might look into picking up a Canon t2i used on ebay for around $260. Then go buy a Canon to Nikkor adaptor, and pick up a 55mm Micro used on Ebay (seeing a theme here) If you are willing to shop used you can probibly get a Canon and two used Nikkor lenses (I recommend a 35mm to pair with the 55mm) and you could stay right around $500 but your camera would not have a warranty.

Re: Nikon DSLR Light Flickering

So, in short, your problem is that your new camera (the D5200) with the kit lens is producing a lot of light flicker? When I used a kit lens, I got a good bit of flicker most of the time. Though, other times, I seemed to not have flicker at all. It's not unusual for kit lenses to have flicker, and inconsistencies (due to the electronically controlled aperture not closing the same every time).

Right now I have more or less found the most balanced exposure combination, I am at an ISO of 1250, Shutter speed of 1/15, f-11.0, and white balance under "Daylight". And that seems to be the most balanced option in which the light flicker is almost gone or just not noticeable to the eye.

From my experience, the setup you are using sounds like the worst thing you could possibly do. The slower shutter speeds will let ore light in the camera, allowing each frame to be more consistent. With the faster shutter speeds, there is much more inconsistency, due to the speed the shutter has to close. (However, I may be wrong, so don't quote me on this mini/wink ) Though, it isn't usually the camera that produces the flicker, it is mostly the lens. I also recommend that you use a lower ISO 800 is the max for the least amount of grain. White balance has nothing to do with light flicker at all.

I've also noticed that zooming into the set more or less decreases the flickering as-well.

Ok, it's definitely your lens then. Have you made sure to turn off Vibration Reduction on the lens and Active-D lighting on the camera? These cause flicker.

Un-screwing your lens will leave you without control over your aperture. However, there is a (rather hacky) solution. In fact, Squid uses it all the time. Here is a post which talks about jamming the aperture lever with paper and keeping the lens unscrewed halfway which will allow you to have an open aperture and reduce light flicker. Keep in mind, that you cannot change the aperture at all. I don't recommend this method, though. I recommend that you get another lens. Manual lenses (old Nikon lenses will do, but there are plenty of other lenses to choose from, like the Helios 44-2, for example).

Though, like Sloth said, if you have a choice, go back and return the Nikon camera and go for a Canon. I recently made the switch from a Nikon D3100 to a Canon, and even the entry level Canons have good features like Live View, tethering, etc. Also, get manual lenses, those are the best thing you can do. I am not sure which Canon camera to recommend to you, however, because I haven't been into Canon products for long (though, I will say that my SL1 is a really good camera).

YouTubeWebsite
https://bricksafe.com/files/rioforce/internet-images/RioforceBiMSig.png
"Whatever you do, do all to the glory of God." - 1 Corinthians 10:31b

Re: Nikon DSLR Light Flickering

The reason I started the vintage Nikon thread is to remind people that while options like the Helios 44-2 might be very cheap they are not very versatile or ideal for general use film making, you are tying yourself down with poor minimum focal distances and a lens mount adapter that you will likely only end up using for one lens. Which leaves new DSLR film makers feel like they don't need an array of lenses for various uses while untimely giving them less versatility then a common web camera.

Re: Nikon DSLR Light Flickering

I want to thank you gentlemen for your tips, suggestions, and help.


First of all, I do agree with you about the manual lenses. They are much easier to animate with, they give you full control over your aperture, and absolutely destroy the flickering. However, I still prefer the newer manual lenses, since they still offer a 2 year warranty on them, means they replace them for you if anything happens during the 2 year period. And I also live 10 minutes driving from their repair center.


Second of all, I have an opportunity to return the camera and get a Canon SL1 with the same lens kit. But I do not think I will, since in my opinion, Nikon is the best camera for stop-motion animations. Both kits are at the same price, and Nikon has a 30% quality advantage. Plus, as an animator, you will gain much more benefits from the Nikon 2 year warranty unlike the 1 year Canon warranty. An entry level Nikon camera frame lifespan is approximately 150,000 pictures, as an animator who takes thousands of pictures weekly, your frame will need replacement within the first year, or in other words, you will need to replace your camera every year or year and a half. And as I mentioned earlier, I live pretty close to the warranty center.


Rioforce, I don't understand how you've had problems with your D3100, right now, I regret for selling mine. I had absolutely clean images without any flicker in the right exposure balance. Unlike with my current camera. I also just asked Titan Pictures from YouTube about the same problem, he said he has never experienced anything like that with his 18-55mm lens. I do believe that some people get deflected lens in their bundle kits, since the lens in my Nikon D3100 were from a separate retail box.


Also, a little update, I just decreased the aperture to 7.1 and zoomed into a figure, and the flickering was 100% absolutely gone. Once I minimized the zoom, it flickered again.

Re: Nikon DSLR Light Flickering

That makes sense Fox, the higher your aperture number the more the aperture has to change from open to what you set it at so you should have less issues with flicker.

Re: Nikon DSLR Light Flickering

UPDATE:
Great news,

So I returned the D5200 to Best Buy on Tuesday, while I was choosing for a different camera, I tried the Canon SL1 and T5i & 18-55 tester and was pretty disappointed of it's photography performance, quality, and "easy press & set" exposure settings however I really did like the fact it is a better camera for brickfilms due to those features. The Sl1 was also on sale for 499$ with the 18-55. I personally enjoyed the T5i way more but both compete with Nikon's entry level D3200's camera in terms of the quality. However, I decided to order the D5200 again to my house, since I do work with composting, photography, and video more and all those features really come in handy and really worth the price. Plus, University recommended using a Nikon
more for the second year when I start the courses again. Both cameras are great cameras, I just personally think is that Nikon generally is better at making professional level cameras ($1000 and up) and Canon is better at making Pro-Consumer cameras ($400-$1000) which are more suitable for animations.

The camera has arrived today and I set it back again in the animation set

The way I solved it, was simply putting the light ABOVE the set and lens at an angle, and not BEHIND
the set and lens at a 45 angle degree. That caused a lot of reflection and shoved too much light to the lens at an angle which caused confusion either to the aperture motor of the camera and made it look like the lever was "sticky" or the lens themselves. I now filmed a few scenes under several settings and I am receiving flicker free shot. 

Either way, I will be buying one of SlothPaladin's listed lens with the manual iris control, or any of the new version Nikon/Nikkor ones below 200$ just for the warranty, I already found a few interesting models.

I want to thank all of you for your tips and suggestion, special thanks to SlothPaladin, the problem is now really bright and understood for me thanks to you.

Last edited by Energetic Fox Studios (May 7, 2015 (08:02pm))