Topic: Filmmaking: A positive future?

Most of us on this forum want to make movies or Tv shows in the future. And it is without a doubt that film making is more popular than ever. But, a lot of the old directors like Steven Spielberg, James Cameron, and more are still directing, and their films are overshadowing newcomers. It's hard to break into this business right now. It's know that famous actors and directors have huge salaries like 20 million per film, but the truth is most actors are paid $9 per hour, and most have a second job to cope, and an ordinary new director is said to earn approximately $20,000 to $50,000 per year. I don't want to be a dream killer, but I am just showing reality. Can we see film making in our future?  mini/sad

Re: Filmmaking: A positive future?

Yes, because not everything is about money. The ones who do it out of their passion for film making will lead it.

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Re: Filmmaking: A positive future?

Hollywood is doomed, according to Steven Spielberg. He almost couldn't get Lincoln released in theatres, because it's not about explosions and superheroes and stuff like that. Spielberg, George Lucas, and Steven Soderbergh have all recently expressed extreme pessimism about the future of Hollywood, believing the current route is unsustainable and it will collapse. That seems like good news to me.

Though I don't hold any ill will toward all the workers in this large industry and I want it to come about in the least tumultuous way possible, I sort of hope that the Hollywood studio system (and theatre system as it exists right now) will collapse entirely within the next 10 years or so. That would open a lot of doors for independent filmmakers and a new way of distributing films to theatres. The old, massive distribution system isn't really necessary anymore; with digital technology, anybody can afford the necessary resources to get a movie to thousands of theatres nationwide very easily. We'd need the distributing companies to collapse, though, before theatres would have a motivation to seek out independent filmmakers who are self-distributing. In the end, it would be beneficial to the theatres; they could charge more for slightly less widely distributed films, and they would be able to keep a larger cut of the profits.

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Re: Filmmaking: A positive future?

This year in film isn't looking so good. There's nothing this summer that particularly interests me. Sadly, this is the way it is. Big "explosion" films are kind of stepping in the way of films made by the good filmmakers. Hopefully, some of us here on the forums will go on to be top filmmakers. Probably not all of us, though. But, I'd like to be in the cinema, watching a big blockbuster made by one of you guys.

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Re: Filmmaking: A positive future?

Very interesting thoughts there Smeagol.

Your idea does have a few flaws, but might could work.

#1, Indie films bring in a lot less viewers, and even higher prices may not make up for the difference.
-I think they would much rather have the popular "Explosion" films, because money is money, and they'd rather have more of it.

#2, Theaters would have to set up some sort of screening process to pick which films they do/don't show.
-Either the requirements would be really high, and only a few films would make it, or they'd be really low and the perception of the overall quality would plummet. Possibly leading to less movie going in general.

#3, Theaters are failing as it is, (Or so I've heard.) even with billion dollar films, so loosing those may lead to theaters being few and far between. -If they did become more rare, they may evolve into a more "Special Occasion Only" type of entertainment, and may become more picky with the films they show. Leading to only the most popular films being shown as opposed to unknown Indie features.

Still, I'm fairly un-knowledgeable on the subject, so your predictions may very well come true. Just thought that I should throw some things out there.

Re: Filmmaking: A positive future?

Smeagol wrote:

Spielberg, George Lucas, and Steven Soderbergh have all recently expressed extreme pessimism about the future of Hollywood

Playing devil's advocate here, I'm not sure George Lucas is the guy to look toward when it comes to predicting what people want. I think he's a talented director, but he seems to tend toward ignoring reality when it makes his own ideas more appealing. That said, I don't entirely disagree with him in this instance.

Pritchard wrote:

#1, Indie films bring in a lot less viewers, and even higher prices may not make up for the difference.
-I think they would much rather have the popular "Explosion" films, because money is money, and they'd rather have more of it.

It's important to note that summer blockbusters tend to have huge budgets to the point that if they aren't successful, they can do a lot of damage to a studio. John Carter is the best recent example of this that I can think of- though it was saved by international sales the film was originally expected to lose $100 million, which was enough to make even Disney shift uncomfortably in their seats. Star Trek Into Darkness had a record theater showing for the franchise, but only made ~$30m in North America ($190m budget, $220m box office). It made the majority of its earnings internationally. Unfortunately I do agree with Spielberg that it doesn't seem non-blockbusters can make much of an impact on the theater scene (according to Box Office Mojo, Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter was shown in a thousand more theaters than Lincoln). It's hard for a film, even with a small budget, to make money when theaters aren't willing to show it.

Re: Filmmaking: A positive future?

Yeah George Lucas isn't really a good example to be bringing into this.

And I don't really have a film career in mind, more of a computer one, but I am pretty sure money shouldn't be your goal, sucks out the goodness in a film when the directer doesn't care about it.

Re: Filmmaking: A positive future?

silents429 wrote:

Yeah George Lucas isn't really a good example to be bringing into this.

the thing is though is that he's george effin' lucas

he created one of the most (or the most?) highly marketed film franchises of all time

if he, the creator of frickin' star wars, can barely get one of his movies into theaters

that's a pretty big deal

Last edited by Just Kidden (July 7, 2013 (10:25am))

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Re: Filmmaking: A positive future?

Well, Hollywood has really just become a political money-making machine. They have sorta created a nice little system to make sure certain movies don't get made. Its sad really.

I agree this might be the collapse of Hollywood. With the help of the internet and companies like "Redbox" or "Netfilx", I think that independent films shall take their place! (But I obviously can't predict the future.)

However, I am almost completely positive that the film industry is going to have changed drastically within the next 10-20 years.

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Re: Filmmaking: A positive future?

Squash wrote:
Smeagol wrote:

Spielberg, George Lucas, and Steven Soderbergh have all recently expressed extreme pessimism about the future of Hollywood

Playing devil's advocate here, I'm not sure George Lucas is the guy to look toward when it comes to predicting what people want. I think he's a talented director, but he seems to tend toward ignoring reality when it makes his own ideas more appealing. That said, I don't entirely disagree with him in this instance.

George Lucas is the 6th most profitable filmmaker of all time by box office gross alone and ranks higher if you include his entire franchises. I feel like his opinions on how the industry works and what the future holds for it are pretty reasonable to listen to. Even in the past decade, he's been making very accurate predictions about the future of cinema as far as shifts in technology from film to digital, and has been a pioneer in that area. More than anybody else, he's (ironically perhaps) responsible for the way modern tentpole blockbuster movies are made.

Pritchard: I agree that theatre chains generally don't want the system to change, because it's safer to keep things the way they are. I'm mostly speculating about what could happen if the system collapses as all these top filmmakers believe that it will. The theatres will have to adapt, and I'm not sure the large chain system we have now would survive in the long term, so yes there would be all sorts of new issues like needing to curate the film selection, etc. etc. much like a film festival would do.

Ron Howard did push back on Lucas/Spielberg/Soderbergh recently and say that he thinks Hollywood can be salvaged yet if they find ways to introduce new ideas and talent. Maybe he's right, but that'll still result in less than adventurous, innovative filmmaking, so I tend to hope Hollywood will collapse. It has become too driven by (unreliable) commercial predictions and bureaucracy to make a high percentage of really good movies.

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Re: Filmmaking: A positive future?

Smeagol wrote:

George Lucas is the 6th most profitable filmmaker of all time by box office gross alone and ranks higher if you include his entire franchises. I feel like his opinions on how the industry works and what the future holds for it are pretty reasonable to listen to. Even in the past decade, he's been making very accurate predictions about the future of cinema as far as shifts in technology from film to digital, and has been a pioneer in that area. More than anybody else, he's (ironically perhaps) responsible for the way modern tentpole blockbuster movies are made.

I don't think anyone would contend that Lucas isn't technically or even artistically innovative, but I don't see how that success translates to special insight into the future of marketing and distribution. If anything, I would think the fact that he's been able to self produce since the 1980s and his tendency (since then) to make market-safe projects like his franchise films means he deals less with the painful parts of the industry than smaller directors. While that alone certainly doesn't discount his opinion, I haven't seen any evidence that he has invested in alternative distribution methods (unless you count his frequent forays into television, which would be stretching to say the least given that TV and film are similar in corporate structure). That said, I don't follow film news much and it's possible I've missed something significant.

I just don't see compelling evidence for a near future not dominated by theaters and big name producers. I want, but don't expect the industry to fold in the next ten years- blockbusters are making record earnings. Will there be small changes in that time? Sure, there are always minor shifts in how people consume and those shifts could lead to something larger eventually. Yet even with piracy a common and viable option (uh... don't pirate, folks), the public feels compelled by tradition or for experience to patronize the big-screen when a new film comes out. Beyond the next decade, maybe things will start to dissolve more quickly. Really, tomorrow the large studios could randomly shoot themselves in the foot and make it all come down, invalidating everything I've written here. For now though, the only thing I see that might indicate disaster ahead is the ballooning Hollywood film budget. The internet is here, streaming video is here, and Hollywood still has a firm grip on the film industry. It's going to take more than a handful of (very) successful people stating that the situation will change rapidly to convince me.

Re: Filmmaking: A positive future?

I think Squash is right; while there is every chance that the studios could make one (or several) fatal mistakes that could result in demise of cinema as we know it today, I really don't see it happening.
What seems to be keeping these studios afloat is China.  China is soon to become the number 1 country for movie sales, and will continue to grow, even though their Domestic growth has slowed to about 7.5 %.  So I certainly don't see theatres becoming few and far between any time soon (especially as IMAX have just announced 30 new venues planned for China alone).
As for the way in which films are distributed; yeah, I think things will changes, and studios will have to adapt, but I don't believe it will result in the demise of major studios, but perhaps an increase in the amount of Indie films shown in theatres.

I personally would be very sad to see theatres become extinct or "endangered" because for me, the experience of cinema cannot be recreated at home.  Plus there's the whole social aspect of it, which is still as popular among younger people now as it was 5 or 10 years ago.

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Re: Filmmaking: A positive future?

Frankly whatever happens in Hollywood won't affect me. I'm not going to aspire to be a famous holluwoo director, I'm sure going to make the best films possible. And While I haven't started thinking about it much yet, after college or whatever I could probably take like small editing jobs for local tv stations or weddings or something, all the while making my own films at the same time

Re: Filmmaking: A positive future?

Saminatorger wrote:

the experience of cinema cannot be recreated at home.

Yeah.  You miss out on all of the people lighting up their faces texting on their iPhones, or the little babies crying, or those people who talk over the move, and don't get to see everyone get up and walk right in front of the screen to go to the bathroom.

Re: Filmmaking: A positive future?

Squid, that's exactly how it was when I went to see Rise of the Guardians. Everyone was talking, there were kids trying to clamber over the seats. That was also how it was when I saw Gulliver's Travels at the cinema. It was awful.

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Re: Filmmaking: A positive future?

I find now that there are advantages and disadvantages of watching at home and in a theater.  If you don't have an HD TV and Blu-Ray, then theater's usually better.  But with a nice TV, a comfy chair, and a good sound system watching at home can be really nice.  Particularly the ability to pause the film at any time as so one doesn't have to worry about not needing the bathroom for 1 1/2 to 3 hours.  Though, there is a certain fun thing about going to the theater.  Particularly one full of decent moviegoers.  The laughter and cheering make it so more appealing sometimes.  But, of course, it's a bit of a gamble as you could get landed with a bunch of the less reputable bunch, having to bother with glow, noise, and fight somebody for an armrest.

Re: Filmmaking: A positive future?

Hollywood spends too much money appealing to empty spectacle, name recognition, and dead franchises. Their industry is collapsing, and what's hilarious is that they are blaming everything but themselves. The Host didn't fail because it had a female protagonist - it failed because it bloody sucked. World War Z didn't fail because of Brad Pitt, it failed because the zombie apocalypse genre is more tired than the bromance-comedy, and because the script was a complete mess. Man Of Steel didn't do as well as you hoped not because of all the competition, but because it was completely bland.

The triple A gaming industry is trying to appeal to difficult-to-develop-for graphics, cheap gimmicks, and bland trends that its forgetting about the actual games. Consoles should serve the games - the games shouldn't have to bend over for the consoles. That's why companies such as Valve and DoubleFine have walked away and are just doing their own thing. Even Lord British has severed ties with EA and launched a Kickstarter campaign because he knows how much major game companies suck. Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo are praying that people will just buy their stuff out of brand loyalty rather than actual quality - because that plan worked so well with Atari...

TV is just generally crap, and with the invention of webshows its been ages since I've sat down and watched something that wasn't a re-run. Its begging for Twitter to help it out, forgetting that Twitter is filled with mindless drones who will just re-tweet anything their favourite celebrity says without actually thinking about it.

No-one reads books any-more. Even if I was to write the next War and Peace, no-one will care because no-one cares about books. Which is a shame, because writing a book and self-publishing it on the Kindle is unbelievably easy. Anyone can write a book now...its just a shame that no-one will be there to read it.

Eventually all these mediums are going to either implode, fade away, or find some way to move on. Either way, stuff is going to change soon.

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Re: Filmmaking: A positive future?

When I saw Les Mis the day after Christmas, in the cinema, I felt like I enjoyed it better than when I rented it on home media. Like the quality of the film seemed much more grand when I watched it when it was first released, at the cinema.

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Re: Filmmaking: A positive future?

Honestly I do think filming has a positive future. I think people complain too much about the state of film making and are acting like there haven't been any poor films in prior generations. I think of movies kind of like I do with music, many people think that for music to be good it has to have some sort of lyrical story. I disagree, as I think for music to be good it has to be produced properly so that it sounds pleasurable to the ear. The truth is that good music is what you make it to be - people choose music subjectively. I think of movies in the same way. Although there are some truly terrible modern movies now a days (i.e. "Battle LA") most are just mediocre, nothing more, nothing less. There are some gems and some crappers, but most are just churn of the mill. This isn't different from previous generations.

I think film making will be stable for the foreseeable future, so as long as these $200 blockbusters are stagnant in price and don't continue to rise.

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Re: Filmmaking: A positive future?

Max Butcher wrote:

Hollywood spends too much money appealing to empty spectacle, name recognition, and dead franchises. Their industry is collapsing, and what's hilarious is that they are blaming everything but themselves. The Host didn't fail because it had a female protagonist - it failed because it bloody sucked. World War Z didn't fail because of Brad Pitt, it failed because the zombie apocalypse genre is more tired than the bromance-comedy, and because the script was a complete mess. Man Of Steel didn't do as well as you hoped not because of all the competition, but because it was completely bland.

The triple A gaming industry is trying to appeal to difficult-to-develop-for graphics, cheap gimmicks, and bland trends that its forgetting about the actual games. Consoles should serve the games - the games shouldn't have to bend over for the consoles. That's why companies such as Valve and DoubleFine have walked away and are just doing their own thing. Even Lord British has severed ties with EA and launched a Kickstarter campaign because he knows how much major game companies suck. Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo are praying that people will just buy their stuff out of brand loyalty rather than actual quality - because that plan worked so well with Atari...

TV is just generally crap, and with the invention of webshows its been ages since I've sat down and watched something that wasn't a re-run. Its begging for Twitter to help it out, forgetting that Twitter is filled with mindless drones who will just re-tweet anything their favourite celebrity says without actually thinking about it.

No-one reads books any-more. Even if I was to write the next War and Peace, no-one will care because no-one cares about books. Which is a shame, because writing a book and self-publishing it on the Kindle is unbelievably easy. Anyone can write a book now...its just a shame that no-one will be there to read it.

Eventually all these mediums are going to either implode, fade away, or find some way to move on. Either way, stuff is going to change soon.

Arrgh, Max. You make so many brash statements that have little basis in fact and it drives me nuts and undermines your more reasonable points.

World War Z has made over 400 million dollars. Man of Steel has made over 600 million dollars. Both more than doubled their budgets.

TV is just crap? Really? Many critics argue that this is the golden age of television. Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad, Mad Men, Hannibal, Orphan Black, Boardwalk Empire, Downton Abbey, Community (at least the first three seasons), Sherlock, Fringe, Key & Peele, Avatar, The Legend of Korra, Gravity Falls, Adventure Time, Louie, Parks and Recreation, Wilfred... I could go on.

As for books, have heard of a little novel called 50 Shades of Gray? It's magnificent A lot of people read it. Wool is another notable Kindle success story. Oh and the reason these books have been successful is because nobody reads anymore. Right.

The methods change, the mediums expand, but let's not ring their death knells just yet.