Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

Max Butcher wrote:

So if your dead for a few hours you can be bought back to life, yet if your dead for about a week or so your stuffed? I'm sorry, but when your dead....your dead.

You obviously haven't paid much attention in biology - there have been reports of people being revived two <i>hours</i> after death. The human body can be quite surprising when it comes to survival. Also, remember The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances when the Doctor states that bringing someone back to life is easy, you just need the correct instructions. But generally, if you've been dead a week then rigor mortis will have no doubt set in by then and I doubt you're coming back from that one.

Max Butcher wrote:

Ah, I get it now. Although it still annoys me how increasingly powerful the TARDIS is getting. Its starting to turn from the simple Time Machine that it was in Series 1 into a tool for writers.

It makes sense though - when at one time there would have been thousands of TARDIS's (TARDI?) connected to the Time Vortex, there is now only one. Much like when cutting off lanes of a motorway forces more traffic through one place. Besides, it's very much implied that the TARDIS has the only surviving Eye of Harmony now that Gallifrey is gone, so logic dictates that it's moved its primary location to there (whether the Doctor realises this is another matter entirely).

Max Butcher wrote:

Ok, by halfway through Series 3 you are aware of a certain Mr Saxon.....but did you honestly expect him to be 'The Master'? I didn't (although I was much younger then, and not as nit-picky).

Pretty much any Whovian with a brain figured it out by episode... 3 I think? ("You Are Not Alone" - you were just oozing with subtlety with that one Russell mini/frustrated )Still, knowing didn't make the actual reveal any less awesome, because no-one expected it to be Professor Yana (a clear sign that Whovians can figure out anagrams, but not acronyms).

Max Butcher wrote:

And I get that your supposed to be aware of a Story-Arc.....but the crack thing was INSULTINGLY OBVIOUS. Sure, I didn't understand it until Episode 3, but do you really need to keep pointing it out at the end of EVERY EPISODE.

Ah, but there's a key difference between it and the arc words of previous series: the Crack is SUPPOSED to be insultingly obvious. It's insultingly obvious to the characters (once they notice), it's insulting obvious to the audience. The reason for the obviousness is a pretty simple one - it sets up the story for the rest of the series. Had the crack been hidden like "Bad Wolf" or casually mentioned like "Torchwood," then when it finally showed up in ep 5 we would have had a reaction of "what? What cracks?"

Also, Prisoner Zero says in TEH: "the cracks in the universe; don't you know where they came from?" Had the cracks not appeared in following episode, even if only as a visual clue, then that would have been shoddy writing. Foreshadowing does not work particularly well with "subtle" plots, because you're more likely to miss it. In Russell T Davis' case, the foreshadowing apparently decided to do its own thing, because half of it was foreshadowing something far more awesome than what actually happened (I will get my epic Ragnarok-inspired finale once day!!). The rest of was the painfully obvious "she is returning" (this after Rose appears in episode 1 of series 4) and all the hints that something bad was going to happened to Donna. For the record, if I ever see a prophecy in Doctor Who again someone will get punched in the spleen ("The Pandoric will open. Silence will fall" is more "this is what will go down" than an actual prophecy because it was unbelievably straight forward for once).

There's also another likely reason for the insultingly obvious: some people wouldn't be able to find a plot if it was presented to them on a graph. I still can't get my head around the fact that people were asking how Amy recorded that video in The Beast Below when a dirty great button marked RECORD (in red, no less) was shown on screen for at least 30 seconds. Honestly, the number of times people complained about plot holes this series when the episode actually addressed them was simply staggering.

Max Butcher wrote:

Smegging? I am so stealing that...

Then I shall command thee to go watch Red Dwarf.

I'd recommend the TV Tropes page for reading up on time travel, because it actually deals with it as it's presented in sci-fi complete with variations. As for the restoration field, think back to the nanogenes from series 1, or check out TV Tropes again, because it's bound to be covered on there too.

Rejecting reality since 2000. mini/bigsmile

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Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

I suppose you can blame me thinking that the RTD arcs were less obvious because I was younger (and therefore stupider - if you can believe me being even more stupid than I am now)

Blue wrote:

You obviously haven't paid much attention in biology - there have been reports of people being revived two hours after death.

Nah, that's far too interesting to be studied at school. But yeah, I have heard news stories and accounts of people who's heart stops for minutes, even hours but then are miraculously revived. The only time my school went near this subject was when talking about how electric shocks stop the heart, but sometimes a controlled electric shock can start the heart again (I am incredibly squeamish, and so refuse to research this further after finding a video of an electrode being plugged into a human heart during an attempt at revival. Its a shame I'm such a wimp because most things in Biology sound really interesting yet whenever I try to learn more I feel faint. I wish their was a squeamish vaccine....)

But....has anyone ever been revived when they've been shot by an Auton? Laser wounds cant be revived using current methods (although since laser weaponry hasn't been invented yet, we cant blame them)

As, as you've probally realised, I completely forgot about 'The Empty Child'/'The Doctor Dances'. I suppose that's a bit superstitious - but again, I was much younger (stupider). I also was willing to ignore this due to the fact that the nanogenes did not know what a human looked like and all that stuff - which I found really interesting.

Honestly, the number of times people complained about plot holes this series when the episode actually addressed them was simply staggering.

mini/shifty

Also, Prisoner Zero says in TEH: "the cracks in the universe; don't you know where they came from?" Had the cracks not appeared in following episode, even if only as a visual clue, then that would have been shoddy writing. Foreshadowing does not work particularly well with "subtle" plots, because you're more likely to miss it.

Hmmm, I do see what you mean. Its one of those things when its almost impossible to get it right - and when it is right its usually just due to luck.

I've just never been a fan of obvious foreshadowing. I get that it has to be obvious, or else I would be complaining that its too subtle. An example of good foreshadowing would be 'The Sixth Sense' - if that counts since the twist has already happened but we dont realise it (and maybe 'Romeo and Juliet' - although the only foreshadowing is in the opening chorus, which some versions dont have) and the example of bad foreshadowing would be 'Of Mice And Men'. I really hated that novel because the foreshadowing (whilst clever) pretty much told you what was going to happen. Its clever, but it means you know exactly what is going to happen, and therefore all suspense is removed - making the novel very boring. Maybe its just my taste...

-MRB

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Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

Max Butcher wrote:

But....has anyone ever been revived when they've been shot by an Auton? Laser wounds cant be revived using current methods (although since laser weaponry hasn't been invented yet, we cant blame them)

So you're worried that kids watching the season finale will incorrectly assume their dead grandparents could be revived when they were shot by laser weapons?

Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

mini/XD

I still think Moffat's an ass.

Seriously, he should think these things over.

And, although RTD was pretty bad, don't you think Moffat's being a little too much of a jerk un-doing absolutely everything RTD wrote?


One more thing, we're debating over things we didn't understand, and you're replying with educated guesses...

What does that tell ya about the writing?

Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

Though I'm not exactly worried, I still think 'raising-from-the-dead' is an area that should remain untouched in Sci-Fi (although I've never watched Star Trek 3). Yes, I know the topic was bought up in Series one - and it was kind of awkward. And yes, people can be revived from heart attacks and electrocutions (there are probably more examples, but I refuse to research any further)

But yeah, my previous argument is now definitely invalid. However, I ask now what is the point of the field apart from being a tool Moffat has used to get Amy to do another series and to have a lone Dalek for......no particular reason other than stretch this episode out a little longer.

I mean, why would you need technology to keep the Doctor alive when he can regenerate? And wouldn't it be better if you left him to die anyway (once his 13 generations were used up - he's only got 2 left anyway)? The monsters just want him out of the way so he can never interfere again (although they did a very poor job), surely it doesn't matter if he's alive or dead?

EDIT:

Brickyman wrote:

And, although RTD was pretty bad, don't you think Moffat's being a little too much of a jerk un-doing absolutely everything RTD wrote?

Yeah, the fact he devotes an entire episode JUST to change the look of the Daleks makes it seem like he's trying all he can to be completely different from the RTD era. (I'm surprised he didn't change the Cybermen, but I guess that's for another episode) And again, despite this - he's not doing anything different from RTD narrative-wise. And again, there was only ONE moment when I was genuinely scared - how is that possible with Moffat writing?

-MRB

Last edited by Max Butcher (July 16, 2010 (08:30am))

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Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

Someone gave a rather good explanation for why the Doctor was kept alive on a LJ comm, but I forget what they said exactly. I think the Valeyard may have been involved.

Max Butcher wrote:

Though I'm not exactly worried, I still think 'raising-from-the-dead' is an area that should remain untouched in Sci-Fi (although I've never watched Star Trek 3).

Hate to break it to you, but that particular horse bolted years ago. Also, sci-fi means science fiction, which consists of theorising how certain scenarios could happen in a scientific manner. "Raising the dead" has been one of those scenarios since, well, quite possibly the beginning of the genre - death in general is something that mankind seems to be inordinately obsessed with.

Rejecting reality since 2000. mini/bigsmile

UniBlog | DA

Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

Benedict Cumberbatch for 12th Doctor.

(Guy with black hair)

http://www.tvovermind.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/550w_tv_sherlock_2.jpg

Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

He was actually offered the role, he turned it down.

11:41 Hazzat NO FUN ALLOWED IN BRICKFILMING COMMUNITY

Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

We only just got a new doctor.

Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

I mean when Matt's done.

Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

Hazzat wrote:

Also, it was never explained why the bodies from the graves disappeared in the first episode. i can has explanation plz?

Alright, I know this may be semi-ridiculous to reply six months later, but I actually just watched this episode and the scientist made a comment about dissecting human bodies, which I would assume was connected to this.

Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

Which episode does Hazzat mean?..

Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

The Hungry Earth two-parter.

Thank you for clearing that up Jargon. I can sleep at night once more.

https://i.imgur.com/1JxY79v.png

Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

The world is a better place with at least one less Doctor Who Plot-hole.

Now will you kindly explain how Rory was able to remember everything about his travels with the Doctor even though he was a robot programmed by Monsters who have NEVER. SEEN. HIM. BEFORE!!!! And why the monsters left the Doctor alone, only to return and easily overpower him later in the episode. And why are the Cybermen from an alternate universe, Daleks from the Second World War, Silurians from the centre of the earth thousands of years in the future, Judoon from present day, Sontarans from present day, and all the other monsters able to get to XXAD?!?!?! And why is a ROMAN SWORD able to stab through CYBERMEN ARMOUR (when we see before that its armour can easily deflect bullets - which are far stronger)?? And why are the Angels still made of stone when they move (in 'Blink', the Doctor clearly says that the Angels turn into stone when someone is not looking at them. If they are still stone when no-one is looking, and they are able to move when they are made of stone, surely THERE IS NO POINT IN THEM KEEPING STILL WHEN A PERSON IS LOOKING AT THEM!!!) And what happened on the England-Ship when the ship has no leader or security? And why DOES Van Gough commit suicide when he knows he will be remembered forever? And WHY DOES LOVE CONQUER TECHNOLOGY THREE TIMES!?!?! ("Drat! I've been foiled by the power of Love!!")

OK, I'm really sorry. Its just all the bad memories started flooding back to me. Sorry, I will contain myself until the Christmas Special....which I'm actually looking forward to! Last year had everyone's face as John Simm (which was so stupid it was hilarious), the year before had a Giant Cyberman Godzilla (which was so stupid it was awesome), and the year before that had Kylie Minogue as an Alien (which was weird if you think about it, but OK)........what could possibly be more ridiculous?

Last edited by Max Butcher (November 24, 2010 (12:41pm))

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Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

And now to send that post to Steven Moffat in the post.

Job done.

Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

Max Butcher wrote:

Now will you kindly explain how Rory was able to remember everything about his travels with the Doctor even though he was a robot programmed by Monsters who have NEVER. SEEN. HIM. BEFORE!!!!

All the elements of the trap were taken from Amy's memory, though I don't recall how this was done, including Rory.

And why the monsters left the Doctor alone, only to return and easily overpower him later in the episode. And why are the Cybermen from an alternate universe, Daleks from the Second World War, Silurians from the centre of the earth thousands of years in the future, Judoon from present day, Sontarans from present day, and all the other monsters able to get to XXAD?!?!?!

That's unclear. I would guess though, that it's possible with the signal being broadcast and all the cracks in the space-time, that they are from many different time periods. It's really just an excuse to have a bunch of Doctor Who baddies all working together.

And why is a ROMAN SWORD able to stab through CYBERMEN ARMOUR (when we see before that its armour can easily deflect bullets - which are far stronger)??

While I am not that familiar with the classic Cybermen, it would appear that this is one of them, due to the skeleton present inside the armor. Perhaps the classic Cybermen were more vulnerable? Either that, or somebody wasn't thinking too hard about continuity. mini/wink

And why are the Angels still made of stone when they move (in 'Blink', the Doctor clearly says that the Angels turn into stone when someone is not looking at them. If they are still stone when no-one is looking, and they are able to move when they are made of stone, surely THERE IS NO POINT IN THEM KEEPING STILL WHEN A PERSON IS LOOKING AT THEM!!!)

I totally agree on this. The Weeping Angels were much better characters before they were retconned.

And what happened on the England-Ship when the ship has no leader or security?

I don't think that this is the case. The queen set up for herself a false dichotomy when she assumed that releasing the whale from its torture would ensure the end of their civilization. Because of this, there's no need to assume that she left power, especially since we see her make a brief appearance in The Pandorica Opens.

And why DOES Van Gough commit suicide when he knows he will be remembered forever?

Depression is illogical. When a person is depressed, knowledge their value to other people is overshadowed by their distorted perception of reality.

And WHY DOES LOVE CONQUER TECHNOLOGY THREE TIMES!?!?! ("Drat! I've been foiled by the power of Love!!")

While it's certainly possible that it was an overused theme this season, it seemed appropriate to me in each of the stories it was used in.

The episode Victory of the Daleks was, to me, a lot about contrasting the humans and the Daleks and showing why they shouldn't mix. The subplot of Bracewell's identity crisis is poignant because he thinks he is and wants to be human. The moment of crisis with the bomb gives him a chance to choose whether he is or is not Dalek.

In The Lodger, the focus of the episode was more on the Doctor's interactions in the regular human world and Craig and Sophie's relationship than it was about monsters and space aliens. It makes sense to me that the climax would draw from this focus.

I'm not sure what the third time you're referring to is. If it's the struggle of the Auton-Rory, that's less technological and more psychic, in that he overcomes the Nestene Consciousness through his strength of will. I believe that's due to his special place in Amy's heart. As all of the elements of the trap were drawn from Amy's mind, his importance to her was able to make him stronger than just another Auton soldier.

Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

Yeah, I get the significance with Love overruling technology, and in a strange way Number 3 is actually incredibly logical (though it still doesn't explain how they are able to extract Amy's memories).....but its still impossible. I know I'm questioning physical possibility a series that involves Time Travel and Satan (and trust me, I thought that was....weird), but I have a book that gives clear - if not a little heavy - scientific theories behind everything in Doctor Who (apart from the latter)- but this was before Series 5 came along. Love conquering evil seems a little.......Harry Potter-ish. I never got how Love was somehow able to transfer itself into a computer command that overrides technology.

Jargon wrote:

While I am not that familiar with the classic Cybermen, it would appear that this is one of them, due to the skeleton present inside the armor. Perhaps the classic Cybermen were more vulnerable? Either that, or somebody wasn't thinking too hard about continuity.

Yes, on one hand your right - Classic Cybermen would make more sense since in the classic series they were constantly invading OUR Earth and therefore would remove the plot-hole that they had to break through the void (AGAIN) to get to our world. But, on the other hand....the Cybermen look exactly like the current generation, only SOMEHOW they are able to function without human organs (surely that means they didn't need to upgrade at all in the previous series? Although, I swear there is an obscure answer to this plot-hole....)

It's really just an excuse to have a bunch of Doctor Who baddies all working together.

I agree 100% Although, I was hyped up for another 'Doomsday' - just with more monsters. The monsters alliance is plausible....but incredibly lame in my opinion.

Because of this, there's no need to assume that she left power, especially since we see her make a brief appearance in The Pandorica Opens.

Ah, blast! Your right! I forgot about that. OK....nevermind.....

Depression is illogical. When a person is depressed, knowledge their value to other people is overshadowed by their distorted perception of reality.

I suppose you have a point, but surely if he knew he was a genius then he would never be depressed again? I wouldn't if I knew that I was going to be one of the most famous artist's of all time. In fact, I would probably be unbearably arrogant and smug (so no change there!)

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Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

Eh, if you're depressed from being lonely, and people thinking you're insane, then that wouldn't matter.

When you're depressed, you only focus on the thing that's depressing you. (Unless you REFUSE to ba an emo and think about sunshine lollipops la la la)

Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

Clinical depression is pretty much impossible to out-think, as it actually stems from a chemical imbalance in the brain. As overblown as it may look to other people, for the person dealing with it, it can be crippling.

Re: The Doctor Who Discussion thread(SPOILER ALERT!)

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/cc286180-62b7-408f-8c50-eef38e71bcb9.jpg

Used to be 'Caidence'