Re: Project Super

All right, so our to-do list:

  1. Assess the number of animators taking part and their animation software.

  2. Crash course on Blender

  3. Crash course on Ldraw and the many software that utilizes it (I got MLCAD covered).

  4. Set up a forum to continue discussions and develop a story.
    Optional:

  5. Gather enough support to keep the project alive in case vital members leave for personal reasons.

  6. Find a place to host all shared files (.ldr, .mpd, .3ds, .blend, .maya, etc.)

  7. Avoid the mistakes of previous projects, specifically developing the story more publicly for better input, distributing the work more evenly and be able to allow other people to cover each other's work if necessary, and avoid the limitations of stop-motion.

That last part has been taken care of.

Software and skill level for yours truly.
Carrara 6 Pro (semi-pro)
Carrara 7 Pro (semi-pro)
Blender 2.48a (novice)

Btw, I just tried exporting Carrara models to 3ds and imported into Blender.  All the smooth edges went creased.  And no amount of auto-smoothing can fix it.  Looks like I'll have to stick to Blender.

Edit: Nevermind, just needed to add a subsurface modifier.  Anyways, can't tell yet, but it doesn't look like my shaders translated exactly to Blender but I'm still experimenting.

Last edited by Lechnology (August 13, 2010 (11:18pm))

https://i.imgur.com/4b9NnS3.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/GUIl0qk.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/ox64uld.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/v3iyhE5.png

Re: Project Super

Blue wrote:

Right, if we're going for bendy then we have the options of Blender and 3DS Max for animation as Littlebrick and I have already made the rigged minifigs for those programs respectively, and it wouldn't take much to mod the models to have different appearances. From my experience, I found animating my minifig to be far easier than I was expecting, and it has a great range of movement (you can see it in action at the beginning of my showreel [ignore the sync glitch, I still need to re-edit it]). I'll see if it's possible to convert it to Blender, but I'm not sure if Blender's coded to deal with its rig. Obviously, we can't use both as they don't look identical, although if we can get the materials right then maybe no-one will notice.

Now I can do animation, but only in 3DS Max, as that's the program I have the most experience with. I can also help with the script, do modelling, designs, storyboarding and probably a few other jobs that I can't think of right now. I might ask my sister if she's interesting in this as well, since she's also an animator and has a 6GB computer at her disposal (well, once we've figured how to stop Max crashing on it, that is), but I can't promise anything.

Also: I know most here use Blender, but if any of you are students in college or university (or maybe even school - I didn't look at the T&C that closely) and would like to try out Max then I highly recommend seeing if you can sign up for an account at http://students.autodesk.com, because you can get it FREE for 13 months (Maya and several others as well). Consider it the world's most generous trial; just don't use it for commercial purposes. I still have my animation tutorials from Uni, which I'd be more than happy to share if anyone wants them.

I talked to a guy from Autodesk at Farnborough Airshow this year, and he said that if you sign up using a school email address, you can get Max or Maya for whatever FREE. Period.

http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/ZoefDeHaas/stuff/sig1.png
"Nothing goes down 'less I'm involved. No nuggets. No onion rings. No nothin'. A cheeseburger gets sold in the park, I want in! You got fat while we starved on the streets...now it's my turn!" -Harley Morenstein

Re: Project Super

So Lech, where do we sign up to say that we want to take part?

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/BGanimations/Signatures/final_400x100.png

Re: Project Super

Lechnology wrote:

All right, so our to-do list:

  1. Assess the number of animators taking part and their animation software.

  2. Crash course on Blender

  3. Crash course on Ldraw and the many software that utilizes it (I got MLCAD covered).

  4. Set up a forum to continue discussions and develop a story.
    Optional:

  5. Gather enough support to keep the project alive in case vital members leave for personal reasons.

  6. Find a place to host all shared files (.ldr, .mpd, .3ds, .blend, .maya, etc.)

  7. Avoid the mistakes of previous projects, specifically developing the story more publicly for better input, distributing the work more evenly and be able to allow other people to cover each other's work if necessary, and avoid the limitations of stop-motion.

That last part has been taken care of.

Software and skill level for yours truly.
Carrara 6 Pro (semi-pro)
Carrara 7 Pro (semi-pro)
Blender 2.48a (novice)

Btw, I just tried exporting Carrara models to 3ds and imported into Blender.  All the smooth edges went creased.  And no amount of auto-smoothing can fix it.  Looks like I'll have to stick to Blender.

Edit: Nevermind, just needed to add a subsurface modifier.  Anyways, can't tell yet, but it doesn't look like my shaders translated exactly to Blender but I'm still experimenting.

I agree with this list, although keeping the project alive seems like top priority.

I have no CGI experience, would it be alright if I learned as we go?

Re: Project Super

jampot wrote:

I talked to a guy from Autodesk at Farnborough Airshow this year, and he said that if you sign up using a school email address, you can get Max or Maya for whatever FREE. Period.

If that's the case then I'd love to know how and where, because I only see 13 month license options available.

Software and Skill Level
3DS Max (semi-pro to pro)
Wings 3D (pro) - good free option for anyone who wants to model and is confused by Blender as it has a load of export options.
Blender (novice) - at least until they make that Max interaction preset, anyway.
Photoshop (pro) - we're gonna need good textures for this.

Anyway, there's something we haven't actually discussed yet: we have two rigged bendy minifigs for Blender and 3DS Max, so wouldn't it make sense to work out how versatile and usable each rig is first? I also have a sneaking suspicion that it might be possible to use more than one program for animation and not have the switch be noticeable, but don't quote me on that just yet, I need to work out exactly how it could be done first.

I'll have a picture of my rig up later so you guys can look at it, just need to iron out a couple of glitches.

PS: In terms of shared files, how familiar is everyone with Dropbox? I'm using it to transfer files between my mac and laptop and as file backup, but you get 2GB of space free which can go up to 8GB via referrals, and you can send links to the folders to other people.

Rejecting reality since 2000. mini/bigsmile

UniBlog | DA

Re: Project Super

Could Carrara 5 also be used in this project (being that it is the version that we own)?

http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/BuilderBrothers/signatures/thac14sig.png

Re: Project Super

BuilderBrothers wrote:

Could Carrara 5 also be used in this project (being that it is the version that we own)?

Good question.  Seeing as the majority uses Blender, and if we're using a bendy rig, Carrara users would have to take the backseat until someone builds a bendy rig in Carrara (I find Carrara's weight map very difficult to work with).  Besides that, we've yet to all come to a consensus on the consistency issue across 3D animation medium.  So far we're avoiding the inconsistency issue by put more focus on Blender.  Not a problem for some, big problem for others.

Basically, assuming all animators find the closest matching material/shader across all software (Blender, Carrara, 3ds Max, Maya, etc.), can each animator animate on their software of expertise and let the editor do the rest (I had an idea of a cel-shading/toon-shading theme to the project).

Okay, so unless someone has a ad-free forum for us to set up shop, I'll have to register one in one of those free forum sites.

As for signing up, that should be done in our project forum.

https://i.imgur.com/4b9NnS3.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/GUIl0qk.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/ox64uld.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/v3iyhE5.png

Re: Project Super

OK.  We may or may not be helping with this project (due to the fact that we have to work on our own projects and school), but we do hopefully plan on doing some minor things in this film's production.

http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/BuilderBrothers/signatures/thac14sig.png

Re: Project Super

Lechnology wrote:

Basically, assuming all animators find the closest matching material/shader across all software (Blender, Carrara, 3ds Max, Maya, etc.), can each animator animate on their software of expertise and let the editor do the rest (I had an idea of a cel-shading/toon-shading theme to the project).

*thanks numerous deities* Cel-shading is probably one of the easiest shaders to match across programs - the only glitches I can foresee are getting the shade lines to be in the right places and it behaving in a similar manner, but if people are given whole scenes to animate in one program then that shouldn't be a major problem.

I still have the raw mesh for my minifig, so I can give that to any Carrara users who know how to rig so they can try and create one for it. Here's a quick run-down of how my rig works so someone can replicate it (click to enlarge):

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d54/blue_aeon/Blog%20Images/th_RigDemo.jpg

Rejecting reality since 2000. mini/bigsmile

UniBlog | DA

Re: Project Super

Lechnology wrote:

(I had an idea of a cel-shading/toon-shading theme to the project).

I please, no. Just, no. I for one can't stand toon shading.

Anyway, that's a great rig you've got there, Blue, but there are one or two things that bother me about it, specifically the joints on the arms and legs, but only because of taste. The only other things are that the head looks just slightly off, and the eyes seem a tad too big.

Here is my rig: Link removed. See EDIT for more information.

The arms, torso, head and hips are completely rigged. The hands with rotate, but will not grab. The legs are almost fully functional, but the toe rotation could use a bit of work and I haven't decided wether I need to rig the ankles or not. Also, the legs on the outer back side will deform a bit weird near the middle. The face I was going to rig using Shape Keys, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. And finally, the hands are a tad misshapen on the upwards curve near the front on the bottom, but that should be easy to fix as well; just a little messing with the vertices should do it. This is my first rig ever, so I might have made some stupid mistakes while working on this. I think it works just fine, though, apart from the things I haven't finished yet.

The whole thing, apart from the arms, should be as accurate as the LDraw parts are to the actual thing, because I based the whole mini-figure off the LDraw mini-figure parts. I also have a couple bricks and plates modeled, and can easily whip up more in a day or two of continuous work.

Here's how it looks when rendered: HD Render

Also, I think the modelers should make sure they have the official LEGO palette, which I found here: Link

EDIT: I had posted a link to my mini-figure, but on second thought, I don't want it public just yet. Lech, I'll send you a link via PM, and if anyone else wants it, PM me, though I cannot guarantee that I'll give the link to you.

"[It] was the theme song for the movie 2010 first contact." ~ A YouTuber on Also Sprach Zarathustra
CGI LEGO! Updated occasionally...

Re: Project Super

Littlebrick, I love your rig and figure. It is a masterpiece. I don't really care if we do Toon shading vs. some other kind of shader. Anything's fine by me. As I said before though, I think top priority at the moment is to get everything organized, such as who is participating, and which participants will be doing which jobs by when, and so forth. That would help to stop people from losing interest and wandering off.

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/BGanimations/Signatures/final_400x100.png

Re: Project Super

Well, I was thinking more towards post-prod color-correction and contrast adjustment to convey dark shadows, but it's all moot.

I can test a rig on both meshes to see which one for me is favorable.  Blue, could you upload yours?

Oh, and thoughts on mouth animation and facial expression?

I say yes, but I say we use a video texture like in my Apologize video instead of something like James W's figs where mouth shapes move.

Last edited by Lechnology (August 14, 2010 (02:15pm))

https://i.imgur.com/4b9NnS3.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/GUIl0qk.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/ox64uld.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/v3iyhE5.png

Re: Project Super

I'd personally be more comfortable having the faces rigged, so I can see how the faces look in context with the rest of the scene. If you can find a way to do that with textures, then I'll be fine with that.

"[It] was the theme song for the movie 2010 first contact." ~ A YouTuber on Also Sprach Zarathustra
CGI LEGO! Updated occasionally...

Re: Project Super

I guess the question is how much freedom from the limitations of a physical minifig do we want to go?  We're already going with a flexible fig.  To me, the protruding mouth and eye pieces are a bit off putting.

https://i.imgur.com/4b9NnS3.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/GUIl0qk.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/ox64uld.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/v3iyhE5.png

Re: Project Super

The face would still be flat; it won't be like that Star Wars: Revenge of the Brick thing that came out a while back.

"[It] was the theme song for the movie 2010 first contact." ~ A YouTuber on Also Sprach Zarathustra
CGI LEGO! Updated occasionally...

Re: Project Super

Just wanted to chip in that I have no objections to restarting the project, but I think I'll stay out. Good luck, you guys will need it.

Re: Project Super

LittleBrick wrote:

Anyway, that's a great rig you've got there, Blue, but there are one or two things that bother me about it, specifically the joints on the arms and legs, but only because of taste. The only other things are that the head looks just slightly off, and the eyes seem a tad too big.

Well, my model was specifically emulating the models from the videogames (I have an issue of Edge magazine that has a picture of the mesh that I could replicate) and therefore it has the same range of movement as the in-game ones do. I'm not about to take away versatility that's been shown to work well for the sake of accuracy.

Also, I have the real version of that minifig and I took dozens of measurements from it to ensure its accuracy (I can also now recite the measurements of a minifig from memory; that's how long I've slaved over this guy). Believe it or not, LDraw pieces that aren't bricks or plates are actually a little out of proportion, to the point where I'm questioning whether the modellers had a ruler on hand while making the pieces. In all honestly the LDraw minifig parts were just so bad to work with that I did it all from scratch.

There is a texture-based expression system implemented on mine - granted, it's basically swapping face images with no real movement, but in my opinion it's something that really suits minifigs, being as it's the only form of expression they have in stop-motion anyway. In theory it can be modded to do lip-synch too; once I find a way to make the eyes and mouth independent of each other, that is. Plus, the face can be seen within 3DS Max's viewports (I spent a week to make sure it worked that way). I tried a rigged face, but it just wreaked the smoothing of the mesh and getting the morphs working would have been a nightmare.

I have a 3DS Max 2010 compatible .max file of the rig if anyone with Max wishes to play around with it.

PS: Nice of LEGO to give us the official colour pallete, but some RGB values would be nice. Until then, I'm sticking to Peeron's colour list.

Rejecting reality since 2000. mini/bigsmile

UniBlog | DA

Re: Project Super

Can't 3DS Max take color samples from images and get the RGB values that way?

"[It] was the theme song for the movie 2010 first contact." ~ A YouTuber on Also Sprach Zarathustra
CGI LEGO! Updated occasionally...

Re: Project Super

I pretty much concur with Nathan Wells here.

I'd add that I am not particularly excited by the concept, especially now that it's to be completely computer animation, but if you guys are interested in doing it I don't mind supporting it in a less-than-official CP capacity for the time being.

To facilitate that, I've created a forum for it:

BiM Community Projects Forum

Whoever is, like, in charge of this thing let me know who to allow clearance to the forums that will be used for more secretive discussions, etc.

http://i.imgur.com/wcmcdmf.png

Re: Project Super

Thanks Smeagol.

I guess at this time, I'll be temporarily in charge as far as establishing who can get in and bringing in materials from the original Stop-motion SUPER CP.  Perhaps Blue and Littlebrick can help share some of the other responsibility.

So essentially, if you're interested in taking part in the project, PM me with what you can bring to the project.

Once again, thanks for the support Smeagol.

https://i.imgur.com/4b9NnS3.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/GUIl0qk.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/ox64uld.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/v3iyhE5.png