Thanks Max!
My friend figured out the whole Rivers thing beforehand. This was his theory.

I can't believe I didn't think of that.

I guessed a few months ago as soon as I heard in Episode 1 that Amy was pregnant when

Loads of punch the air moments, and a few to bring tears to the eyes as well.

Mod edit - spoiler tags added

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I'm going to have to rely on "Heroes" dvds to entertain me until the show is back on...

I guess you read some expanded material to find that out - since they sure as hell didn't explain that in the episode....

I'm sure they could have wrapped it up some other way. This climax did not deserve one episode after only 6 episodes of build-up to answer so many questions. I thought the episode suffered greatly by trying to cram as much in as it could. This could have been solved by splitting it into two and dedicating more time to the Doctor forming the army (which was very rushed and confusing), plus spreading out the final act a bit more - or this could have been solved by cutting the Headless Monks out, since they added NOTHING.

I was asking that question if we assumed that the army was in a war with the Cybermen. The whole paragraph there was pondering what the point of the Cybermen was, and contradicting each foreseen counter argument. 

OK, your first point is right. But I have no idea what you mean by 'horrible group'? Are you talking about the group in 'Love and Monsters'? You know, the group we knew for ONE EPISODE!! Or are you referring to 'Torchwood' (if you think that's a horrible show, they you clearly have only seen a few episodes and have not seen the excellent 'Children of the Earth' series) where Captain Jack has met the 9th Doctor, thus knowing his name, and recognises the 10th because he drives the TARDIS - which is a pretty big give-away.  Or are you referring to his inner circle of friends which all join together in Episode 13 Series 4. You know, the group who has ALL MET THE DOCTOR IN HIS 10TH FORM!!!

What? A brain up his ass, eyes in his nipples, and lungs in his...I dont even want to think about it.OK - So the fat blue guy somehow has a dual set of vital organs. Thats really silly, and was NEVER EXPLAINED in the episode, but fine. What about the humans? Not only is having their heads cut off the best thing that ever happened to them - but they also have MAGIC POWERS!! It would have been fine if the Monks were also Aliens whom could function by the power of their hearts (which is what someone really briefly said). But humans doing it too? I'm sorry - but humans cannot survive without their head!! Why am I the only one who is so angry about this!?!

So, a group of people decided before evacuating to turn off the security systems? Out of ALL the measures they could have taken, they choose to disable the anti-teleportation? And, if the anti-gravity, the oxygen, the force-field system, and the whole power grid is still operational, did the SECURITY SYSTEM turn itself off??

Thats pretty much what happened anyway. The climax was pretty rushed (like the rest of the episode). And it was pretty obvious it was a force field because YOU CAN SEE IT!!! I knew it was a force field as soon as it was activated because I watched Star Wars!!! I'm pretty sure a 900 and something year old Time Lord who has travelled through time and space all his life will instantly recognise the GIANT GYRATING BEAM OF LIGHT as a force field!! Heck, the Silurian knew what it was!!

Besides, the reason why they stayed to fight was because the TARDIS was trapped. If the Doctor could get to the TARDIS then they wouldn't need to fight and thus everyone would live!! I love it when an entire battle and a load of deaths are deemed pointless because Moffat wrote himself into a corner...(and before you counter argue with RTD, yes: RTD wrote himself into a corner several times. I will not deny this....)

He didn't give a specific time reference. He didn't say it happened when Amy was abducted from the Orphanage - which is what pretty much every person watching the show thought, and would have made the most sense. I will watch the clip again, but I swear all he said was either before or since America. A quick flashback or something would have been nice.....

I suppose so - but honestly:

Last edited by Max Butcher (June 7, 2011 (02:49pm))

OK, that explains it....

Something else I need to replay again. Sometimes I forget single lines of exposition right at the beginning of the episode when there is stupidity later on....

And honestly - did we really need to see the Cybermen? I still think it was incredibly gratuitous. I'm sure they could have asked someone else who overlooks galactic activity, such as the Judoon or that space-station in Episode 12 Series 4....

It pains me that there is stupidity and rushed writing - since this would have been an excellent episode. The TARDIS episode was one of the worst I have ever seen, but honestly: Its an episode about the TARDIS turning into a middle-aged woman on a living planet that eats time lords and creates Frankenstein time-lords for no reason whatsoever. What did you expect? Its like walking into a Selzerberg movie and expecting it to be funny. But here, I was expecting a satisfying, conclusive, and well done climax...and I didn't get it.

Last edited by Max Butcher (June 7, 2011 (03:01pm))

Actually, Minecraft wont install for some reason. But I would rather be playing that....

And, if you read my previous post, I established that I was wrong, and that this single line of exposition was lost in amongst all the stupid.

No...they added a battle. And the whole team suddenly whipping out their swords and engaging in MORTAL KOMBAT was very out-of tone with Doctor Who. All the time, the Doctors friends have used their intellect rather than just going "Lets kick some Alien butt!!". It happened in Episode 2 when River Song just pulled out a laser gun and went Rambo on everyone in the room. It just feels wrong for them to suddenly just mow them all down. Also, I felt that

I meant that the story could have been spread out over two parts, with the same climax and closure and the end of the two. And I dont call a four month gap between episodes a 'two parter'.

And, despite the Wikipedia page saying this is a two parter with 'Lets Kill Hitler' (which is the stupidest episode title in the world and significantly lowers my expectations), I dont think its going to expand on anything. The Doctor has gone off and left everyone on the ship, and there isn't anything else to be done on the ship instead of doing some mother and daughter bonding (which I dont want an entire episode dedicated to). Most likely the story will pick off with the Doctor trying to get the baby back.

I wasn't 'still complaining' -  I was referring to my earlier post.

The Monks are humans who have been 'converted' (although the whole order may have originated from Aliens). We see one of the gay guys (I'm sorry to refer to them in this way but I dont know his name -  nor do I really care about his name) being 'converted'. And we then see that the Monks are actually humans who have been beheaded. Unless some complex operation was also performed (but I'm not a biologist, so I dont know if its possible , then this is physically impossible.

I still find it so funny that everyone is shocked to find out that 'The Headless Monks' are *gasp* Headless!!

Ah, but L&M was so atrociously bad that we dont regard it to be in canon with the series

Seriously though, it was just one Episode and one Mini-Comic Relief Episode (which also isn't really in canon). I dont think you can say that RTD was too busy writing one episode to ignore the fact that the Doctor was turning into a death machine. Although, RTD still screwed up on this....

You are right that its never explained how they know the Doctors name. I'm not going to defend L&M. Its the best example of RTDs ego taking over his work, and deserves all the bashing it gets.

Well, as I said, I need to re-watch that bit to check what the Doctor said. Again though, this moment was crying out for a flashback where we see Amy being duplicated and when it happened.

But earlier you said "Well they left and the security went off, duh"

Then why did he claim he did plan it that far back?

I guess I'm too nit-picky, cynical, and hard to please for this new 'era' of Doctor Who....

Well I'm sorry that this new era can never please you cause you can't move on with new companions that don't use their intellect as much

Let's talk about something else than us quoting each other back and forth olol.

What do you think of Matt Smith returning for a third series?

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I think it would be great because that means Dr. Who will go on longer.