<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<feed xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom">
	<title type="html"><![CDATA[Forums - Bricks in Motion - Brickfilming Discussion Week 10: We'll Do It In Post]]></title>
	<link rel="self" href="http://bricksinmotion.com/forums/feed/atom/topic/19362/"/>
	<updated>2014-07-14T17:36:05Z</updated>
	<generator>PunBB</generator>
	<id>https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/topic/19362/brickfilming-discussion-week-10-well-do-it-in-post/</id>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Brickfilming Discussion Week 10: We'll Do It In Post]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/post/327998/#p327998"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[I, personally, don't mind CGI effects in brickfilms. I know that I'm a little bit on my own when I say this but: I didn't really like the smoke, rain, water effects in The LEGO Movie!

Sometimes, a gunshot needs to be smoke, and, water needs to be water. When all effects are done in-shot, it can sometimes distract from the rest of the film. That's not to say that I didn't like The LEGO Movie (anything but, as, it's one of my favorite films of all time) however, I just prefer the looks that the old LEGO Island series, LEGO Racers series, and even LEGO Alpha Team games had... There was "real" water and "real" lava, not a bunch of red a blue studs that flow across the screen.

That's not to say that I don't like in-camera effects made with LEGO, but, it's just that I prefer when water looks like real water, and lava looks like real lava. :P]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[Dyland]]></name>
				<email><![CDATA[thedylandproductions@yahoo.com]]></email>
				<uri>https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/user/2257/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-07-14T17:36:05Z</updated>
			<id>https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/post/327998/#p327998</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Brickfilming Discussion Week 10: We'll Do It In Post]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/post/327834/#p327834"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[Exactly. I actually wasted quite a bit of footage overall on some of my recent projects because, when I got to editing, I decided they were surpluss. It takes time to make those decisions.]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[jampot]]></name>
				<uri>https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/user/189/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-07-11T15:55:33Z</updated>
			<id>https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/post/327834/#p327834</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Brickfilming Discussion Week 10: We'll Do It In Post]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/post/327833/#p327833"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[Exactly, Jampot! Editing takes time, and for a quality film, it takes more time. Just throwing stuff in a concrete mixer and pouring it out within 5 seconds isn't going to make concrete (ok, that was a strange comparison). Editing shouldn't be a side thought, it should be just as important as writing scripts, building sets, recording audio, and capturing frames. :)]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[rioforce]]></name>
				<uri>https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/user/131977/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-07-11T15:15:08Z</updated>
			<id>https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/post/327833/#p327833</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Brickfilming Discussion Week 10: We'll Do It In Post]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/post/327828/#p327828"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[[quote=Talipoli Studios]because it takes only about 15 minutes at most to do that[/quote]

Not if you're making a brickfilm that's forty minutes long.

Also, I've never edited anything, even my 10-second animation of the Flash, that's taken anything less than half an hour to edit from start to finish. And that half an hour was for the 10-second Flash video. I'm sure most users here will agree with me when I say that editing can be pretty lengthy, even on shortform projects.]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[jampot]]></name>
				<uri>https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/user/189/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-07-11T14:13:46Z</updated>
			<id>https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/post/327828/#p327828</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Brickfilming Discussion Week 10: We'll Do It In Post]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/post/327826/#p327826"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[[quote=Talipoli Studios]Aren't you spposed to write a script and record voices in pre-production? I also don't really consider the ordering of frames and scenes as post-production, because it takes only about 15 minutes at most to do that. The real time consumer in post is picture editing. I have not edited a single frame except in my three latest films, so I really haven't experienced post-production much.[/quote]

Post-production is everything after filming. It's editing, CGI, soundtrack, re-recording, uploading, etc. Post production isn't a bad thing. Sure, they didn't have all the computers and masking tools when film was around like we have today, but even film had post production. They spliced, they rotoscoped, etc. Post Production completes the film. A film without post production is just a few thousand frames sitting on your hard drive.

Check out this Wikipedia page:

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-production[/url]]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[rioforce]]></name>
				<uri>https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/user/131977/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-07-11T14:08:15Z</updated>
			<id>https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/post/327826/#p327826</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Brickfilming Discussion Week 10: We'll Do It In Post]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/post/327817/#p327817"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[[quote=brickelodeon]if you're going to use CGI, make something that looks real. In my opinion, a CGI brickfilm is not a brickfilm at all.[/quote]
Yeah...I'm not going to waste time trying to create a human, animal, creature, monster, etc. model.  And [u]The LEGO Movie[/u] is what, then?  A LEGO movie?

I like LEGO.  I enjoy brickfilms.  I want to make brickfilkms.  I tried making stop-motion brickfilms.  I lacked the brickfilmer's dexterity to animate smoothly nor have the materials to make things that I want to make.  CGI was my substitute.  I didn't start using CGI to make CGI films.  I use it to make brickfilms.  I try to conform to the limitations of physical bricks.  I've tried breaking out of that mold.  I've tried going back into it.

Now you may classify me as a CG brickfilmer, or not even a brickfilmer, just a CG animator.  You may not even want to associate my work with yours.  That's fine.  I'm not going to change your opinion.  You're not going to make me pull up my camera, spend hundreds of dollars on plastic toys that I have no place to store, with no space to build, with not enough lighting equipment to use and not enough patience or a healthy spine to tolerate.  I've already gone through that. I've made 8+ stop-motion brickfilms and decided this approach isn't for me.  I wasn't happy being hunched over a table in a hot attic every night.  I moved on.  I still like LEGO.  I still enjoy brickfilms.  I still want to make brickfilms and I make it with CGI.

This hobby can get very expensive.  I chose a less costly option long ago.  I think incorporating CGI elements to a scene is fine if you have the talents to make it photorealistic or match the scene.  I think full CGI brickfilms are fine, as long as you're learning and improving your skills with it.  I don't quite like custom elements in CGI brickfilms like non-LEGO piece, but that's the purist in me, ironically.]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[Lechnology]]></name>
				<uri>https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/user/80/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-07-11T04:53:44Z</updated>
			<id>https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/post/327817/#p327817</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Brickfilming Discussion Week 10: We'll Do It In Post]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/post/327786/#p327786"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[Aren't you spposed to write a script and record voices in pre-production? I also don't really consider the ordering of frames and scenes as post-production, because it takes only about 15 minutes at most to do that. The real time consumer in post is picture editing. I have not edited a single frame except in my three latest films, so I really haven't experienced post-production much.]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[Talipoli Studios]]></name>
				<uri>https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/user/132149/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-07-10T22:26:47Z</updated>
			<id>https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/post/327786/#p327786</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Brickfilming Discussion Week 10: We'll Do It In Post]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/post/327766/#p327766"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[I think CGI can be used in brickfilms as long as it doesn't make up more than 50% of the film. 100% CGI brickfilms don't even make sense to me. I mean, if you're going to use CGI, make something that looks real. In my opinion, a CGI brickfilm is not a brickfilm at all.]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[Brickelodeon]]></name>
				<uri>https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/user/131671/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-07-10T20:43:18Z</updated>
			<id>https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/post/327766/#p327766</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Brickfilming Discussion Week 10: We'll Do It In Post]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/post/327764/#p327764"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[Talipoli, post-production DOES include syncing audio & video, pacing, putting frames int he right order, etc.  I'm sure you do SOME post-production work.]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[HoldingOurOwn]]></name>
				<uri>https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/user/125690/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-07-10T20:28:59Z</updated>
			<id>https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/post/327764/#p327764</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Brickfilming Discussion Week 10: We'll Do It In Post]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/post/327718/#p327718"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[I am about the most anti CGI person around. I absolutely hate post production, because it is tedious and mind numbing. I didn't even edit anything in my brickfilms unless you count my 3 latest films. I actually got a CGI animation software from a friend's dad, but it is extremely hard to understand and after a frustrating hour at the computer, I gave up. I have used cotton balls for an explosion, and I have used 1x1 flat tiles for bullets.For a film I am planning for I am going to try to make an explosion with only lego bricks (like in the LEGO movie). Overall I would think that if possible, post-production should be limited.]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[Talipoli Studios]]></name>
				<uri>https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/user/132149/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-07-10T02:30:55Z</updated>
			<id>https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/post/327718/#p327718</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Brickfilming Discussion Week 10: We'll Do It In Post]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/post/327709/#p327709"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[The point of special effects is so that the viewer maintains their suspension of belief. If the effects are noticeably bad and take you out of the story, you shouldn't use them.]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[Willco66]]></name>
				<uri>https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/user/131350/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-07-09T22:45:43Z</updated>
			<id>https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/post/327709/#p327709</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Brickfilming Discussion Week 10: We'll Do It In Post]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/post/327638/#p327638"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[[quote=NathanWells]What is your opinion on the use of CGI in brickfilms, including fully-CGI brickfilms? What do you think of CGI effects versus “practical” (AKA in-camera) effects, such as using cotton balls for smoke and clay for blood spatter? Do you prefer no CGI or limited use of CGI, or are you all for as much CGI as possible?[/quote]

I have pretty much the same opinion on this as the modification one for LEGO bricks.  If it fits and still works well, either or is fine.  In general, I personally prefer to do as much in camera as possible just for simplicity's sake.  I'm not entirely comfortable doing a lot of CGI work so I'll try and do it in camera.  It's been a bit restricting, but I also think it helps me learn how to solve certain problems.  Heck, in Perpetual Twilight I didn't want to mask for the film so there was no masking at all.  Even in the shots where they're jumping, I cheated and was able to attach the minifigs to each other or the background with a long rod and bluetac.

I also think a lot of it depends on the film it is and the actual animator, basically, do what you can do well.  There's a lot of brickfilms that use clay for blood and it works great.  There's also some that use clay but it looks lame and poorly done.  Same with when people put prekeyed blood splats into the brickfilm (though there's a lot less that I think are done well).  I can't recall many brickfilms using bricks themselves as blood where it worked well, this is kind of a case where actual bricks simply won't work well.
I could say the same thing about smoke or explosions.

As for using CG to do things like digital set extension, I'm perfectly alright with it if it blends well.  I think Sloth's work is a good example, it looks great and has a huge scale that would be near impossible to do if it were all in camera over one take (though technically most of it was in camera).  This kind of thing, I think, kind of blends the lines between doing CG work and using physical bricks.  

My final opinion is pretty simple, if it works well and looks good, do it.  If it means finding an alternative to how most people do it because you don't have the resources or the know how, do the alternative but try and learn how to do it the other way as well.]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[JonnDthunDer]]></name>
				<uri>https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/user/128068/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-07-09T01:01:07Z</updated>
			<id>https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/post/327638/#p327638</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Brickfilming Discussion Week 10: We'll Do It In Post]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/post/327542/#p327542"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[[quote=Max Butcher]The problem with CGI is that if you place a character right in front of a greenscreen then your actually much more restricted than if you would use a set - because the only action you can have is a character standing in front of a 2D enviroment like a bloody weatherman. If you have a proper set assembled then you can place the camera in a variety of different places, and you can have your characters interact with the set.[/quote]

Depends what you're doing. You can build a big set, but if you had a single character that was all CG - let's use Smoke Monster as an example - that needed to move around the physical characters and weave around pillars and stuff, you might want a greenscreen behind whatever object the Smoke Monster needs to move behind.

But I do agree with your point, Max.]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[jampot]]></name>
				<uri>https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/user/189/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-07-07T22:01:15Z</updated>
			<id>https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/post/327542/#p327542</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Brickfilming Discussion Week 10: We'll Do It In Post]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/post/327541/#p327541"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[My opinion of CGI in general is either go all-out or just don't do it. Either have nothing but CGI or have almost nothing but corporeal objects. Don't create a bizzare mix of the two. 

CGI mingled with live-action/LEGO only really looks good with a greenscreen replacing a matte-painting, or with little stuff like gun-effects/lasers/magic spells. The problem with CGI is that if you place a character right in front of a greenscreen then your actually much more restricted than if you would use a set - because the only action you can have is a character standing in front of a 2D enviroment like a bloody weatherman. If you have a proper set assembled then you can place the camera in a variety of different places, and you can have your characters interact with the set. Also you can actually play around with the lighting rather than have to add filters in post that make the whole thing look even more fake (I know film itself is an illusion...but could you at least try to make it look less so?) 

A room with a window that leads out to a greenscreen is fine. A balcony is fine. The outside of a train/plane is fine. A character on a rooftop looking out to a greenscreen is fine. Having the set be nothing but a greenscreen looks awful. Its not laziness (CGI takes a lot of time and effort to do)...but it actually looks so much worse than just building the set yourself. 

There are of course exceptions to everything. I would say never make a 3D character interact with live characters...but then we have Gollum, who's awesome. And there are Brickfilms such as [i]Unrenewable[/i] where Jack Darter would stand in front of nothing but a greenscreen - and it would look perfect. And, of course, there's everything Nick Durron has ever made...]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[Max Butcher]]></name>
				<uri>https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/user/239/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-07-07T21:47:42Z</updated>
			<id>https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/post/327541/#p327541</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Brickfilming Discussion Week 10: We'll Do It In Post]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/post/327536/#p327536"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[About using clay, though, I don't really think that clay works well with LEGO. It's such a pliable material, and in my opinion, it makes the brickfilm look kind of cheap (unless it's done the proper way, which I rarely see). Most people use modeling clay, and I guess that's the reason...]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[rioforce]]></name>
				<uri>https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/user/131977/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-07-07T21:05:25Z</updated>
			<id>https://bricksinmotion.com/forums/post/327536/#p327536</id>
		</entry>
</feed>
